Mellow Mushroom: Working with the Avondale community

[Bridges]

The fire truck thing is a red herring.  This is how you solve that problem on narrow streets that were not designed for today's vehicles and multiple car households:

I pointed that out to billy nussbaum when he mentioned it as a problem already.  All they have to do is call the city now and show the pictures, city should come out and put up no parking signs on one side.  Of course, this would cause the homeowners to no be able to park there.  So maybe emergency vehicles aren't really of a concern to them.

[tufsu1]

Really?  They are tearing down an historic builidng to gain only 4 (four!!!) parking spots, and that's OK?

not that it matters (because this still sucks) but the drawings seem to show a total of 9 additional spaces in the new plan

Bro, it's 4 (maybe 5). We love Avondale is counting 3 spaces that aren't going to be there.

sorry I can't add...its 11 spaces....just count the spaces on the side/back in Mellow's original design (16) and the revised plan (27)...what am I missing?

[Know Growth]

MM simply must work with the community.The community orientation is in fact the rule of existing law/Overlay,effective legal standing via the likes of WLA.

[JeffreyS]

I keep posting that many in Avondale want the area to be Oakleaf/Julington/ Queens harbor with older homes but people don't believe it. Well look at the modified design plan and try to tell me they don't have burb envy.

[JFman00]

I keep posting that many in Avondale want the area to be Oakleaf/Julington/ Queens harbor with older homes but people don't believe it. Well look at the modified design plan and try to tell me they don't have burb envy.

I had been under the impression that RAP was actually in the business of historical preservation, not being an HOA. Have I been wrong?

[JeffreyS]

in its current form let's say your half right.

[simms3]

It is an HOA.  The whole appeal of historic neighborhoods outside of walkability and charm is the fact that you don't have someone telling you what plants are allowed, what color the trim can be on your house, what kinds of cars you can park visibly in your driveway, who you can have over, etc.

Unfortunately, those with enough money to fix up some of these larger old homes and *modernize* them to today's standards incorporating a few modern design techniques here and there are often prevented from coming to the neighborhood to make such an investment because rules forbid them essentially from spending the money.

And it's like SRG - no offense, those new homes meant to look old are cute but *boring*.  Instead of SPAR allowing homes to be destroyed, it should have encouraged freelance design on empty lots so that both people interested in historic preservation and people interested in the neighborhood but also interested in new construction (that doesn't necessarily look like an 1915 knockoff) on an empty lot could move in.

We've preserved (well in SPAR's case they did the opposite and now I suppose RAP is hand picking what they feel should be preserved and what should not), so now it's time for CIDs and neighborhood planning associations rather than antiquated perservation boards.

MetroJacksonville should do a large photo essay on modern additions to old buildings, or contemporary design mixed in with really old urban areas.  I'm not just talking SFR like the density characteristics of Jacksonville or much of the South, but on larger scales as often seen in much older cities like NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago, San Francisco.  Everybody's doing it, including my own company (adding two very contemporary additions to a 100+ old 1.1M SF building in Manhattan).  I love how 1234 Oak mixes in with both the new infill construction meant to look older and the older homes and apartments near 5 Points.

[simms3]

There is proper and normal regulation and then there is preservation fascism.

[JFman00]

The preponderance of HOA and HOA-like organizations in this state is absolutely mystifying to me.

I be surprised if anything like this would be allowed in... pretty much every SFH part of Jacksonville.


House of light in Chicago's Lincoln Park

[tufsu1]

I keep posting that many in Avondale want the area to be Oakleaf/Julington/ Queens harbor with older homes but people don't believe it. Well look at the modified design plan and try to tell me they don't have burb envy.

maybe partially true....but real burb envy would have put the parking lot up front

[cline]

So this is the planning advice the WLA group is getting from Susan Fraser?  As the former planning director of Clay County, I would expect more from her than this.  I don't know many professional planners that would promote a generic strip mall over an adaptive reuse project.  But then again, maybe this explains the proliferation of strip malls in Clay County

[Gators312]

So this is the planning advice the WLA group is getting from Susan Fraser?  As the former planning director of Clay County, I would expect more from her than this.  I don't know many professional planners that would promote a generic strip mall over an adaptive reuse project.  But then again, maybe this explains the proliferation of strip malls in Clay County

I think you are greatly overestimating Susan Fraser.  She will promote whatever makes her the most money.   She was in the pocket of developers during her time in Clay.  In Clay you have to pay to play!

[Tacachale]

Once again, for the benefit of listeners just joining us, Mellow Mushroom's plan would have saved and adapted the gas station. We Love Avondale, and evidently Riverside Avondale Preservation, want to demolish the building for a parking lot.

For some context, here's an entry from the online version of Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage by preservation hero Wayne Wood on the demolition of the Heard National Bank Building and two others for a parking lot:

This is not historic preservation.  In 1981-1982, the Barnett Bank demolished three of Downtown's most interesting buildings:  the G. D. Jackson Building, a Prairie School gem by H. J. Klutho (1914);  the Ritz-Woller Building, Downtown's oldest building (1876); and the Heard National Bank Building...

http://www.jaxhistory.com/Jax%20Arch%20Herit/D-57.htm


Here's a Folio article on the Mellow Mushroom dispute with the following quote from Jim Love:

“There are a lot of ways to solve it. You don’t want to tear down houses and build parking lots or parking garages,” Love said.

http://www.folioweekly.com/folio0807wkl007.php


Here are some interesting quotes from RAP's own blog regarding the proposed 2009 demolition of historic buildings near Memorial Park, emphasis mine:

RAP has always supported smart growth. Some might think that’s a crazy position for an organization dedicated to historic preservation. But there clearly are instances where the judicious removal of vacant, derelict structures can bring new development and vitality to areas that face an uncertain future.

...

However, our position remains that demolition should be done only as a last resort, and so RAP is decidedly NOT in favor of The Renaissance Group’s reported proposal to tear down the historic buildings at 2008 Riverside Ave and 1732 Margaret St.

http://riverside-avondale.blogspot.com/2009/05/rap-opposes-demolition-of-historic.html

[Gators312]

Even though it isn't a contributing structure, the Gas Station carries a great deal of history and nostalgia with many people in the neighborhood.

The adaptive reuse would have added character, and PRESERVED some history of the Shoppes.

[JeffreyS]

I keep posting that many in Avondale want the area to be Oakleaf/Julington/ Queens harbor with older homes but people don't believe it. Well look at the modified design plan and try to tell me they don't have burb envy.

maybe partially true....but real burb envy would have put the parking lot up front

I think that up front parking could qualify as RAP porn. The fantasy threesome they are still too afraid to pursue but you know they dreaming about it.