Suburban Walkability: Markets at Town Center

nestliving · April 16, 2009, 12:19:58 PM

I guess you can call it walkable since you have to get out of your car and actually walk into the stores, but seriously, it's a pig dressed in a pretty dress. The town center is no different to any other forced community / strip mall / retail "theme" that is mentioned in the metro jax article written a while back (link below). It's just new. One day, when it's old and all of the stores have moved on to the next big planned concept that is going to revolutionize retail Jacksonville will be left with yet another funky part of town for us to shake our heads at. Please don't get me wrong, I am a retailer and opened a store in that mall when it first opened. I love some of the concepts out there (although it does piss me off a little that Urban Outfitters is in a suburban mall). I just don't think we should be calling dog shit caviar.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/917/120/

reednavy · April 16, 2009, 12:23:21 PM

I'd love to know where this next shopping mecca will be. I know the Davis' aren't budging on their land.

Deuce · April 16, 2009, 01:34:06 PM

QuoteI'd love to know where this next shopping mecca will be.

I'm going with Palencia!

Personally I would love a Nordstrom or Needless Markup. Throw a Saks, Bloomies, or Macy's in there and I won't have to trek to the Mall at Millenia.

reednavy · April 16, 2009, 04:24:59 PM

That's almsot laughable. I'd go with WGV, but even that may be a stretch considering they don't have enough residents in the area.

Safe to say SJTC and vicinity has a lockdown for now.

thelakelander · April 16, 2009, 04:31:46 PM

The next regional centers are planned at WGV & I-95. However, there is no telling when those plans will become reality.

reednavy · April 16, 2009, 04:54:27 PM

That's what I was saying, the plans for WGV have definetly fallen far bellow what was expected by now.

Jason · April 16, 2009, 04:58:53 PM

I wouldn't even call them plans anymore. The Worl Commerce Center site has been inactive for a year now. And the Esplande hasn't even turned a shovel of dirt. Not to mention all of the roadway improvements that were supposed to preceed it.

I-10east · April 16, 2009, 09:56:10 PM

Quote from: Sigma on April 16, 2009, 10:38:50 AM
Shopping centers don't build vertical because the retailers don't want it. Their studies show that buyers don't care to shop on upper levels. The commercial developers don't particularly care for multi use because they don't want to get into the residential component.

Parking garages are a large expense, so until land prices get high enough, they will keep single level lots.

Until these things change, keep detroying vast amounts of land and pave it all!

Well said. I dunno what else to say. This topic has been a Pandora's Box around here for a VERY LONG TIME. It's amazing as to how SPOILED we have become as a city. There's a time a place for everything, but esp. now in the middle of a recession definitely isn't the time to build tall buildings in the middle of the suburbs.

thelakelander · April 16, 2009, 10:03:43 PM

I must say, I do like Orlando's SoDo. Fortunately, for them, it was built right before the economy went down the tubes.

Suburban Cleveland's Crocker Park is also nice.

So strip centers that are well integrated with their surroundings are possible. However, they probably won't happen unless the city actually plays a leading role in the planning process for the areas of town these centers go into.

thelakelander · April 16, 2009, 10:07:17 PM

^Ditto for all the new shopping centers being built around suburban Charlotte as well.

A mini storage facility

A Harris Teeter anchored strip mall. The surface parking lot is located behind the retail stores.

mtraininjax · April 17, 2009, 03:46:34 AM

What, sprawl and shopping malls, with no bus service or shuttle service or a trolley? What no rail to SJTC from downtown? How could we have forgotten rail in this thread?

I thought we needed a little rail with every thread?

oskeewowow · April 17, 2009, 10:36:01 AM

Not sure if this is true, but I've been told that the City of Jacksonville doesn't permit multi-use new developments outside of downtown Jax. Hence why you don't see any retail developments with vertical residential or office space. This by no means contains the suburban sprawl, but I suppose it does prevent a true "town center" from developing outside of downtown. Anyone with more familiarity of the building codes of Jax wish to confirm or elaborate further?

cline · April 17, 2009, 11:29:34 AM

QuoteNot sure if this is true, but I've been told that the City of Jacksonville doesn't permit multi-use new developments outside of downtown Jax. Hence why you don't see any retail developments with vertical residential or office space. This by no means contains the suburban sprawl, but I suppose it does prevent a true "town center" from developing outside of downtown. Anyone with more familiarity of the building codes of Jax wish to confirm or elaborate further?

I believe that Tapestry Park off of Southside has retail with residential above. 1661 in Riverside does as well.

Deuce · April 17, 2009, 11:57:43 AM

QuoteThat's almsot laughable.

It was meant to be.

stephElf · April 17, 2009, 02:14:40 PM

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 17, 2009, 03:46:34 AM
What, sprawl and shopping malls, with no bus service or shuttle service or a trolley? What no rail to SJTC from downtown? How could we have forgotten rail in this thread?

I thought we needed a little rail with every thread?

hehehe