The Skyway's future is in question: What's next?

[NaldoAveKnight]

Has the city examined using the existing rail lines for mass transit?  There's all sorts of rail lines throughout Jax.  I've ridden the New York and Chicago trains that used regular trains and tracks and it was great.  Isn't that what they did in Orlando with the SunRail?

Orlando's SunRail: http://sunrail.com/default.aspx
Chicago's Metra: http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home.html
New York's Metra North: http://www.mta.info/mnr

[thelakelander]

^JTA is looking at commuter rail. However, the rail lines aren't publicly owned, so you can't have commuter rail if the entity owning the line doesn't want it or the liabilities that come with it. In Orlando's case, close to a billion was spent on Sunrail. The $184 million Skyway, in its current state, attracts more daily riders. Yet, we call the Skyway a boondoggle and Sunrail a TOD generator. Go figure....

[JeffreyS]

^JTA is looking at commuter rail. However, the rail lines aren't publicly owned, so you can't have commuter rail if the entity owning the line doesn't want it or the liabilities that come with it. In Orlando's case, close to a billion was spent on Sunrail. The $184 million Skyway, in its current state, attracts more daily riders. Yet, we call the Skyway a boondoggle and Sunrail a TOD generator. Go figure....

Boom, Lake drops the mic.

[CCMjax]

Has the city examined using the existing rail lines for mass transit?  There's all sorts of rail lines throughout Jax.  I've ridden the New York and Chicago trains that used regular trains and tracks and it was great.  Isn't that what they did in Orlando with the SunRail?

Orlando's SunRail: http://sunrail.com/default.aspx
Chicago's Metra: http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home.html
New York's Metra North: http://www.mta.info/mnr

I believe Chicago's Metrarail lines are dedicated solely to commuter rail.  I think there would be too many delays if they were shared, kind of like Amtrak.  My question is, is there enough ROW in Jax to construct commuter tracks adjacent to the existing lines so they don't have to be shared?  Kind of like a dedicated bus lane on a busy street.  This is way in the future, when Jax actually gets some density, but worth thinking about now.

[thelakelander]

^Yes, but the ROW is privately owned by FEC and CSX. I can't imagine the benefit to FEC in selling their mainline ROW. The CSX A-line would be easier to acquire, but I can't image CSX selling it for cheap. Once your cost for commuter rail starts getting into the hundreds of millions, you then have to ask your self, why bother? As proposed, service would be pretty infrequent, meaning ridership would be lower than what the Skyway is now.  Just look at Orlando's Sunrail. +$1 billion spent on a 31 mile line for 3,200 riders/day in a MSA with 2.5 million residents. In Jax, a MSA with 1.4 million residents, that 2.5 mile long system pulls in 5,000 riders/day. It cost $184 million to build and we blew a lot of money with its implementation.  Down in Miami, the Skyway's 4.4-mile sibling cost millions less and carries +30,000 riders/day.

To sum things up, you might as well take a fraction of the cash needed for a low ridership commuter rail line and toss it into a smaller urban core system with high service frequency. You'll get a lot more ridership with a well planned 10 mile system (offering frequent service) than you will with a +30 mile commuter rail line, running a few hours, five days a week.

[exnewsman]

The whole sky way thing here is silly.   No one rides it. 

Skyway is on pace for 1.35 million trips -up from 1.17 million last year. Somebody is riding it. Just imagine the ridership with more/better destinations.

[spuwho]

Chicago METRA has an operating agreement with the railroads they provide service on.

This includes Union Pacific, Canadian Pacific, CN, BNSF, South Shore.

They do own some track where the original owner stopped using it. The Rock Island District, most of the Heritage Corridor (former Alton Line), Southwest District, which is the former Wabash, now partially used by NS.

The 2 Milwaukee Districts are the former Milwaukee Road lines. In fact the Milwaukee District-West is about to be expanded out further to Belvidere, using a little used Union Pacific line to Rockford under a joint arrangement with Amtrak. A major system expansion.

Most but not all of these lines are shared with freight.

[CCMjax]

Chicago METRA has an operating agreement with the railroads they provide service on.

This includes Union Pacific, Canadian Pacific, CN, BNSF, South Shore.

They do own some track where the original owner stopped using it. The Rock Island District, most of the Heritage Corridor (former Alton Line), Southwest District, which is the former Wabash, now partially used by NS.

The 2 Milwaukee Districts are the former Milwaukee Road lines. In fact the Milwaukee District-West is about to be expanded out further to Belvidere, using a little used Union Pacific line to Rockford under a joint arrangement with Amtrak. A major system expansion.

My bad, I used to live right off the northern line that goes through the Ravenswood neighborhood.  My source was purely me just trying to think back if I ever saw anything other than metra trains on that line and I am almost positive I didn't.  That must have been one of the lines that metra owns.

[fsujax]

I wonder if this committee will be hearing from business owners, building managers, etc. on their thoughts about the Skyway? I would think those entities would generally be supportive of the system. With over 5,000 trips a day, something must be going right.

[Ocklawaha]

Without a doubt, with modifications made for streetcars on the Skyway infrastructure, once modest expansion took place (San Marco, Stadium, UF, Riverside) we'd be seeing 10,000-15,000 riders daily.

[edjax]

Per Stephanie Brown of WOkV the subcommittee is recommending replacing the cars with modern vehicles at the 74 million price option.  They also recommend the possibility of expanding the routes and also perhaps short term expanding hours to later in the evening and weekends.

[UNFurbanist]

^ Awesome! Seemed like the obvious choice but I wasn't going to put it past the committee to do something dumb either.

[edjax]

Now the hard work begins on how to finance it.  Back to JTA to work on that with recommendation on how to finance and potential expansion, etc. I think I saw that will be due December 2016 with updates quarterly.

[Steve]

^ Awesome! Seemed like the obvious choice but I wasn't going to put it past the committee to do something dumb either.

Correct. I actually had doubt that the smart recommendation would be made (cynical side of me).

I actually think that this makes more sense to go after a TIGER grant for than the extend the skyway one block.

Thoughts from people more familiar with TIGER?

[thelakelander]

IMO, we have just as good of a chance in getting struck by lightning as we do in winning a TIGER grand to expand the Skyway. This does not mean we should not apply. Just don't count on getting anything out of it. There's a ton of competition across the country and very little funding to stretch out in small bits.

Anyway, when it comes to funding capital improvements, one option I'd suggest is the "bundling" of funding options. For example, the mobility plan will be updated sometime soon. Perhaps, the Skyway could be included as a transportation element as opposed to a road or the streetcar lines in the current plan? If Khan hasn't already taken all the bed tax money, perhaps some could be utilized on the segment to expand the Skyway to the Sports District? By piecemealing potential funding sources and opportunities, it may be easier than most think to come up with a viable plan to fund various expansion concepts.