We Love Avondale Attempts to Ruin Christmas Event

[Cheshire Cat]

I have just gotten off the phone with Jim Love to discuss much of what has been said here regarding the restaurant issue in Avondale, as well as where this process currently stands.  First, Jim has agreed that if anyone had been asked to leave the meeting last week, he should have been the one asking, not one of the appellants, in this case Ms. Grant.  To use his words he said he will take the "hit" on that situation. He told me that had Ms. Grant not objected he would have let everyone stay, they just would have not been able to comment.  The "folks with standing" during these meetings according to Jim are MM and the organized groups who paid to bring an appeal. The agreement they struck regarding attendance is that MM and the appellants will be the only parties in the meetings. Any other agreements however seem to be alluding them.  Beyond that, this is where the process stands.  Mellow Mushroom did receive the variance they requested to stay open until 2:00 AM and serve hard alcohol some time back. (Which I know someone on this thread already pointed out.) It was in response to the granting of the variance that five different groups appealed that decision.  RAP, WLA and three other groups apparently made up of residents from some of the other streets in the area appealed.  The meetings called by Jim Love are an attempt to mediate the appeals and get some agreement in place to satisfy all involved so that the appeals as they stand can be dropped and the process move forward.  The next meeting is next Thursday at 2:30.  What will come of that is anyone's guess.  The next date that truly matters will be the LUZ meeting on January 5th which will be chaired by Lori Boyer.  That meeting will be on a Saturday and is expected to last for quite some time. 

[funguy]

I live on St. Johns Avenue across from Boone park. I have lived on St. Johns Avenue and been an Avondale landlord for over thirty years. On many nights after the local bars close my tenants and I are forced awake by drunks getting into their cars, drunks playing and shouting in the park and general drunk loud ramblings. Not to mention empty beer cans, bottles and trash left behind. ( I have not noticed any pee on my trees) 
I am sure the good folks at MM mean well but I fear the size and scope of MM is just not appropriate for what has been a fine neighborhood. The additional people on the street at bar closing hours will cause even more chaos up and down the street and in the park how else can it be.

Quote: The residents near the shops do know that it means they will deal with a bit more noise and parking congestion. Some bristle at the thought, but I don't think anyone held their heels to the fire and made them buy homes where they did.

Answer: Thirty years ago when I purchased my buildings I did not visualize a half dozen bars in the neighborhood.

Quote: Perhaps these individuals will read this thread and take a moment to share with everyone their interests in Avondale and connections to the area as well as how they fear the opening of MM will impact them.

Answer:  I am not a member of WE LOVE AVONDALE but I do love Avondale and I have taken the time to share my interest in the discussion.
See above.

Quote: Why is no one pressuring landlords to build parking for renters if so concerned with parking?

Answer: I provide off street parking for ALL my tenants.

PS. I applaud Jim Love for his courage in involving himself in this controversy.

[cline]

Thirty years ago when I purchased my buildings I did not visualize a half dozen bars in the neighborhood.

So you didn't bother to read the land use codes that allow those uses?  Did you just assume that the establishments that were in Avondale 30 years ago would remain the same indefinitely?

[JaxDiablo]

Quote: The residents near the shops do know that it means they will deal with a bit more noise and parking congestion. Some bristle at the thought, but I don't think anyone held their heels to the fire and made them buy homes where they did.

Answer: Thirty years ago when I purchased my buildings I did not visualize a half dozen bars in the neighborhood.

Why then is this the only "bar" (which it isn't, it's a restaurant that serves alcohol which is very similar to the Brick, Elevated Avondale, Mojo's, Biscotti's, Blue Fish, and Casbah, but no one is trying to get them shut down or make them change their business models), that is being asked to change it's business practices when all these other organizations have established it as an acceptable business model for the area?


Quote: Perhaps these individuals will read this thread and take a moment to share with everyone their interests in Avondale and connections to the area as well as how they fear the opening of MM will impact them.

Answer:  I am not a member of WE LOVE AVONDALE but I do love Avondale and I have taken the time to share my interest in the discussion.   

So your "fine" neighborhood is already riddled with drunks getting in to their cars, playing and shouting in the park, and general drunk ramblings... So how will MM change anything aside from in your opinion possibly increase the people involved in the current status quo of the area?  Maybe with all the private parking they will be providing you will actually get less of what you're dealing with because they will be getting into their cars theoretically right in front of and behind the establishment they are visiting instead of having to go bother yourself and your neighbors.   
 
See above.

Quote: Why is no one pressuring landlords to build parking for renters if so concerned with parking?

Answer: I provide off street parking for ALL my tenants.

Good for you, then your property and tenants property should be safe. 

[MEGATRON]

PS. I applaud Jim Love for his courage in involving himself in this controversy.

LMAO.  Its his friggin' job and he is doing a very poor job of it.

[thelakelander]

Not to mention empty beer cans, bottles and trash left behind. ( I have not noticed any pee on my trees).

What club, bar, or restaurant sells people drinks in cans and bottles that can be carried outside and disposed of in people's yards?  I suspect, it's more likely this would be the result of local residents or their guest in the area.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Not to mention empty beer cans, bottles and trash left behind. ( I have not noticed any pee on my trees).

What club, bar, or restaurant sells people drinks in cans and bottles that can be carried outside and disposed of in people's yards?  I suspect, it's more likely this would be the result of local residents or their guest in the area.

Please stop with the logic... it doesn't belong in this thread....

[KEGreene1]

All - Dennis just provided his thoughts (as requested).  He did it in a non-combative manner.  Just because we are on opposite sides of the issue, we need to be able to listen.

That said: Cline is correct in pointing out that the Land Use Codes were there and allow MM to open.  While the anti-MM crowd all have their various reasons to fight.  The Pro-MM crowd does as well.  And I think one of my biggest beefs is the notion of "Fine, we will allow MM to open.  However, they cannot do X, Y and Z even though Biscotti's, Brick, Mojo's, etc. is allowed to do X, Y and Z"

Obviously the parking and the drunks behavior is an issue with or without MM and the WLA or Shoppes of Avondale Association should be spending their time and money into looking in ways to alleviate these issues.

[thelakelander]

All - Dennis just provided his thoughts (as requested).  He did it in a non-combative manner.  Just because we are on opposite sides of the issue, we need to be able to listen.

I wasn't trying to be rude or combative.  I've seen/heard that particular thing mentioned a lot.  I'm not aware of any lawful establishments doing this and would like to know a little more detail if possible.  Dennis, do you know where the beverages found in people's yards are coming from?  What are the logos on the empty cans and bottles?

[funguy]

WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH?

[thelakelander]

Enough of what?

[Ralph W]

There's not a bar, package store or nightclub anywhere near my neighborhood but it's not uncommon to find multitudes of beer bottles, cans and other trash discarded along the road side and even thrown onto the lawns. Enough is enough when the disrespectful citizens of our city can go anywhere whether walking, biking or driving and think and act as if the great outdoors is their own personal trash can.

[thelakelander]

I definitely agree.  I was just wondering if there is a true connection between beer cans being thrown in people's yards and the restaurants in the area.  Any restaurant passing out beer cans and bottles to patrons to drink in the street should be exposed.

[Cheshire Cat]

Hello Dennis.  It was good of you to chime in given the opportunity and share your views. As an Avondale resident myself who really had no feelings one way or the other about the new restaurant to begin with, this entire situation drew my attention when it was clear a standoff was underway and it was having a negative backlash on our community.  As someone with experience in both historic restoration and commercial revitalization I have a working knowledge of this sort of thing.  I also understand that is is very difficult negotiating a resolution in situations like this and that you will never please everyone. The only way to begin to find some resolve short of lawsuits, is to step away from the emotions, fears and wants and look at the facts.  In this instance, emotions and fears are the basis of much action but not sound judgement in all cases.

Consider the view of some that the MM is of a size and scope too big for the shops of Avondale. That is one perception.  The reality is that  size and scope of any enterprise in the shops is something to be considered by planning, zoning and city experts once given the plans for the project.  Apparently this proposed restaurant does meet lawful requirements. Once that fact has been understood, there is nothing to be gained by continued appeals except delay and bad will. 

The other concern you spoke of seems to revolve around noise and disturbances allegedly created by drunks that is bothersome to you and your tenants  The reality is that if those problems do exist the concerns and complaints should be directed to law enforcement. There are already laws in place to deal with disturbances after hours. What you are complaining about is according to your own words going on now and has nothing what-so-ever to do with a restaurant, in this case the Mellow Mushroom, that has yet to even be built. This is where want's begin to press reality.  The complaint then becomes merely the speculation that the restaurant will create more drunken disturbances.  Speculation however does not equal proven fact.   The city cannot simply refuse a business based upon the fears of some property owners who just don't want a particular business open near them.  Especially when that business is proposed for an established commercial area.  What is now happening  is that Mr. Valentino and his project have become the dumping off point for several old issues like parking, noise, traffic or the serving of alcohol.  He is being expected by some to pay for the business practices of others and the ordinances that allowed their operation under current laws.

When one purchases residential or rental property next to a commercial area and are then annoyed by the activity commercial business brings there is no one to blame for the choice but themselves. Buying next to commercial areas is always a gamble in some ways and those making the choice to do so also made the choice to take the gamble. 

I have been amazed by the degree of shortsightedness on the part of some local Avondale folks who apparently are so focused on finding something wrong with the MM project  they have become blind to the good things the business can bring.  First, we will see a derelict gas station in the core of the shops replaced with a well funded and viable restaurant that has name recognition and will draw needed customers and the prosperity they bring with them.  That will be felt by all the shops.  People who come to eat will also experience the lovely shops and perhaps come and visit other eateries at other times.  The parking issue is old news and any impact the new restaurant would bring would be most felt during the lunch hours which lasts a couple of hours. Surely some can be understanding enough to not get worked up over a couple of hours a day.  The shops are closed early and there is plenty of parking after that time for all the restaurants so at that point the parking issue becomes somewhat mute. 

This restaurant will open in one form or another and it would behoove everyone to welcome them in a positive fashion and hope that they are successful cause I gotta tell you folks, it is only the willingness of those to invest in local business in our shops that will keep the area vibrant and prosperous.   The alternative to that is empty structures and businesses that fail and you better believe a row of for rent signs in windows is much more ugly that a sign saying open, pizza now being served. 

Finally, I would applaud Mr. Love's attempts to mediate this situation but painting him as courageous because he is doing what he was elected to do which is work for the citizens is just silly IMO.  He is an elected official and controversy is part and parcel of the job. 

[mhgc2]

Thank you Diane. You bring reason to this discussion. I hope your Avondale neighbors will realize that bringing MM to the shoppes is not a bad thing. I believe they will be a great addition to the area. Lets face it, the westside is sorely in need of good places to eat.