Mellow Mushroom: Working with the Avondale community

[Captain Zissou]

^Sure, but why do we need to be hoping for modest incremental improvement?  MM's original design would have been so far beyond any restaurant currently in town that it would rase the bar for what is expected.  Let's aim for great, not just slightly better.

I imagine the new MM will look like tht Brixx at the beach, which isn't bad.  It still won't be anything close to the original design.

[Tacachale]

^In a vacuum I'm sure the new design would be fine. But here, we had a previous plan that was much better looking, included a public green space, and adapted an existing building. On top of lacking those things, the new projected will demolish an existing building and replace it with a parking lot. This is more than a little sad.

[If_I_Loved_you]

^In a vacuum I'm sure the new design would be fine. But here, we had a previous plan that was much better looking, included a public green space, and adapted an existing building. On top of lacking those things, the new projected will demolish an existing building and replace it with a parking lot. This is more than a little sad.

But the original design didn't work with the project MM needed more parking spaces. And the old design was for more of a party atmosphere that the "We love Avondale LLC" didn't want along with others?

[Captain Zissou]

So...............??  I don't want the Brick to exist anymore, but that doesn't mean I have the right to shut them down.  WLA is just a bully that is attacking an honest business owner just because they feel like it.

[If_I_Loved_you]

So...............??  I don't want the Brick to exist anymore, but that doesn't mean I have the right to shut them down.  WLA is just a bully that is attacking an honest business owner just because they feel like it.

WLA hasn't shut anyone down C.Z. MM hasn't even been built in Avondale. Lets talk about the "historic district of Avondale" the Prudential Network Realty building? Years ago that was a convenience store talk about having no historic value at all!

[fieldafm]

But the original design didn't work with the project MM needed more parking spaces. And the old design was for more of a party atmosphere that the "We love Avondale LLC" didn't want along with others?

Painting a picture that Mellow Mushroom is a nightclub full of drunken frat boys who will terrorize the neighborhood with raucose panty raids is, in fact the most despicable lie this small opposition group is propogating. 

We Love Avondale doesnt want the restaurant to open... period.  You don't present a VERY poorly designed alternative site proposal, get the developer to consent to virtually every major concession on said poorly designed site layout and then subsequently oppose your own site design... all the while play politics behind the scenes about the withdraw of the PUD application AFTER the developer has negotiated in what was supposed to be good faith with the opposition group, which then triggers the developer to follow the new guidelines under Love's moratorium/seating reduction bills, even though the original application was submitted before that bill was passed, b/c again this is a new site layout that is different from the original application.

You don't do all of those things if you really wanted to work a compromise.  You do these things b/c you are trying every way imaginable not to let the restaurant open.

That's what's really going on here. 

YET STILL, no discernable parking study has been conducted, no comprehensive transportation plan has been put together for the neighborhood, no implementation of parking mgmt practices have begun and no plans have been presented to enhannce pedestrian safety nor emergency vehicle access.

These are the ACTUAL issues.  Everything else is just a sideshow to arbitrarily oppose a business from opening in the area that is being led by restaurant owners(the very ones who have for years enjoyed the same relaxed standards in the Overlay) who are scared of the competition.

[Tacachale]

But the original design didn't work with the project MM needed more parking spaces. And the old design was for more of a party atmosphere that the "We love Avondale LLC" didn't want along with others?

Painting a picture that Mellow Mushroom is a nightclub full of drunken frat boys who will terrorize the neighborhood with raucose panty raids is, in fact the most despicable lie this small opposition group is propogating. 

We Love Avondale doesnt want the restaurant to open... period.  You don't present a VERY poorly designed alternative site proposal, get the developer to consent to virtually every major concession on said poorly designed site layout and then subsequently oppose your own site design... all the while play politics behind the scenes about the withdraw of the PUD application AFTER the developer has negotiated in what was supposed to be good faith with the opposition group, which then triggers the developer to follow the new guidelines under Love's moratorium/seating reduction bills, even though the original application was submitted before that bill was passed, b/c again this is a new site layout that is different from the original application.

You don't do all of those things if you really wanted to work a compromise.  You do these things b/c you are trying every way imaginable not to let the restaurant open.

That's what's really going on here. 

YET STILL, no discernable parking study has been conducted, no comprehensive transportation plan has been put together for the neighborhood, no implementation of parking mgmt practices have begun and no plans have been presented to enhannce pedestrian safety nor emergency vehicle access.

These are the ACTUAL issues.  Everything else is just a sideshow to arbitrarily oppose a business from opening in the area that is being led by restaurant owners(the very ones who have for years enjoyed the same relaxed standards in the Overlay) who are scared of the competition.

In other words, we have a group opposing an innovative adaptive reuse, by presenting a plan that demolishes a structure for a parking lot, all so they can get their wish of having an empty building at a prime corner. Sounds reasonable to me.

[simms3]

Well, the other argument not really mentioned is that the opposition to MM is bad, very bad for every other landlord on the street and will surely dissuade any other decent tenants from even considering Avondale.

You want a decent name brand soft goods store?  You landlords want a little bit of credit or a better sponsor for your tenant?  You want to be able to get out of your investment?  You might need to do a quick 1031 someday?  We Love Avondale and Jim Love have effectively killed all outside interest in Avondale going forward.

Too many people without a clue of design, of how similar neighborhoods have successfully blossomed elsewhere (not enough people in Jax, especially in Ortega/Avondale, travel), oh how real estate works, of how tenants think, of what's really best for the neighborhood.  And yet all these clueless people are getting involved.

The same reason why downtown is so undesirable could be a reason for Avondale being undesirable for tenants, investors, etc going forward.  Do we want Avondale to turn into downtown?  Ask yourself because overstepping regulatory bounds is the worst thing one can do.  No regulation is much better than too much regulation by ill informed parties.

And frankly restaurants pay much higher rent than regional/national clothing retailers.  They sign longer terms.  Their operations and sponsors are usually riskier, but they are much more profitable to landlords.  Now every landlord on the street can look forward to a lack of any interest by restaurant operators and without foot traffic and certain appeal, the better clothing stores every landlord dreams of signing on will not look at the area either.  Now you'll be stuck with gift stores, candle pop ups, real estate offices, and maybe some nail salons.  Have fun with that.

[thelakelander]

Why do you keep singling out these two specific individuals? Are you claiming that RAP is down to two people or that no other RAP member has any backbone? Also do you know how we can find out the list of individuals who make up the group WLA, LLC?

[wsansewjs]

Attention to the business owners of MM who wants to build MM in Avondale:

Completely IGNORE RAP and We Love Avondale organizations. Continue to build your ORIGINAL design with very minor changes or additional enhancement to preserve the historical elements of the local Avondale community.

ChrisUFGator, does these crazy organizations have any legal jurisdictional power to intervene any development, or they are just bunch of powerless crying babies?

-Josh

[wsansewjs]

Why do you keep singling out these two specific individuals? Are you claiming that RAP is down to two people or that no other RAP member has any backbone? Also do you know how we can find out the list of individuals who make up the group WLA, LLC?

Because one is the executive director of the organization and the other one is the power behind the throne, obviously, Lake. 

At the end of the day, its their responsibility

If RAP is truly run by two people, then it is not an organization at all. It should be disbanded, or vote more new, fresh members with actual backbone into the organization to restore its original core / values.

-Josh

[MissMinda]

Which business owners are specifically against MM? I'd like to know who not to frequent.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Here's the thing that really sticking out to me the most.  In the first conception, re-using the old gas station and incorporating the green space on the corner to be, well, green space and outdoor seating, the parking spots were added off site. 

In the newest version, we have added several parking spots in the rear of a very narrow, yet elongated storefront who's depth allow for a bar and some seating.  This is the epitome of shortsightedness.

Let's say that Mellow just doesn't make it and they're closing shop within the next 3 years (much like 'town), and now because of an LLC sticking it's nose in a business to 'help', now they've created a situation that will require not only removing existing parking, but demolition of a new, non-contributing structure before any other business can move in. 

My question is if Mellow doesn't make it, what becomes of the property as designed?  The new business will have to add more parking, but due to the restricted site plan, they'll have to remove existing parking first to even construct a building that would suit their basic needs.  Essentially, by forcing MM to this new, improved site plan, they are essentially preventing any other business from ever moving in without a severe change to the site.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Here's the thing that really sticking out to me the most.  In the first conception, re-using the old gas station and incorporating the green space on the corner to be, well, green space and outdoor seating, the parking spots were added off site. 

In the newest version, we have added several parking spots in the rear of a very narrow, yet elongated storefront who's depth allow for a bar and some seating.  This is the epitome of shortsightedness.

Let's say that Mellow just doesn't make it and they're closing shop within the next 3 years (much like 'town), and now because of an LLC sticking it's nose in a business to 'help', now they've created a situation that will require not only removing existing parking, but demolition of a new, non-contributing structure before any other business can move in. 

My question is if Mellow doesn't make it, what becomes of the property as designed?  The new business will have to add more parking, but due to the restricted site plan, they'll have to remove existing parking first to even construct a building that would suit their basic needs.  Essentially, by forcing MM to this new, improved site plan, they are essentially preventing any other business from ever moving in without a severe change to the site.

If mellow didn't make it couldn't just another restaurant just take over the space as is without changing a thing? And if this is true "The new business will have to add more parking" that's just the cost of doing business.

[Adam W]

Why do you keep singling out these two specific individuals? Are you claiming that RAP is down to two people or that no other RAP member has any backbone? Also do you know how we can find out the list of individuals who make up the group WLA, LLC?

Because one is the executive director of the organization and the other one is the power behind the throne, obviously, Lake. 

At the end of the day, its their responsibility

If RAP is truly run by two people, then it is not an organization at all.

-Josh

Not a fan of RAP, really, but that just isn't true at all.