Light Rail Commuters in Clay versus the Outer Beltway??

[jcjohnpaint]

The building of this highway never made any sense and now the whole thing sounds like a joke... just waiting for the punchline.  Sorry, but I don't think one will come.  So no exits/ just some kind of toll sensor???  that will detect the mile points and charge people/ what through the mail?  WTF
I am so confused.  Is this a joke?  Who the F is in charge of this? 

[tufsu1]

Press Release

Lt. Governor Jennifer Carroll announced today at a press conference in Oakleaf that construction on the First Coast Outer Beltway will begin in the fall of 2012. The estimated $291 million project will be funded by Florida's Turnpike Enterprise.   The project will be constructed in two segments: the north extends from 10 south to Argyle Forest Blvd. and the south segment links Blanding Blvd. and Argyle Forest Blvd. For more information, please visit www.fdotfirstcoastouterbeltway.com or call 800-749-2967 x 7707.

[cline]

So to build 15 miles of the FCOB which includes building 5 interchanges and widening about 7 miles of that road (and building frontage lanes) will only cost $291MM?  That seems low considering this accounts for 1/3 of the entire FCOB that is expected to cost $1.8 billion.  The math just seems fuzzy to me.  I have a feeling in the end it will be much higher than $291MM.

[tufsu1]

yeah...and I'm betting the # doesn't include the money already spent or planned to be spent on ROW

[north miami]

  The only way to provide better access for Orange Park residents would be create a network of east/west roads to connect to Oakleaf but that will require extra hundreds of millions that have not been mentioned as of yet.

East/West route aspirations have been part and parcel of the Booster package.A matter of public record.Note Kingsley Avenue Extension,et al.(Which somewhere on MJ I covered fairly well,including historical attempts at Blanding Blvd. parallel,wetland belts,Kingsley Ave speculative moves....Not that any of this seems to matter)

In a nutshell,the broad wetland belts orient generally North/South,an effective blockade.
As always,the assumption (with Maps to show off!!) that the Booster Road network will be built.
Don't worry,Clay County will soon no longer affect you like this...cars Jammin'.Scammin'.We'll soon Pave Your Way!
Sign here,move to Clay!

The dollars,and regulatory ('hurdles') simply astronomical even for Wild Eyes Shut.

Rick Scott era Clay county like a raving child with a razor blade.We get the government-and landscape-we deserve.

By the way-"We'll Pave Your Way" was in fact an 80's era Clay Chamber promo.
Even Crow,when packaged as exotic Clay Chamber Game Bird,is edible.Eat up!

[Ocklawaha]

Believe it or not there IS a really simple and not-so-complex difference between actual "light rail" and "heavy rail", this illustration shows two more common types, at the HEAVY end is rail that actually weighs 132 pounds per yard, and on the LIGHT side is a rail that weighs 60 pounds per yard. Though the broader definition today usually denotes types of mass transit, THIS IS THE ROOT OF THE PHRASES.

Needless to say a streetcar using 60 pound steel would be far cheaper then a HEAVY commuter rail line using 132 pound rail.  Just for reference rail generally runs from 12 pounds to 156 pounds, with 12, 20, 30, 40, 50, mostly used in mines and light internal factory tram lines where full size rail cars are off limits. There is hardly any 60, 70 pound rail left in common carrier use, but 80, 85, 90+ can still be found depending on the tonnage the line is expected to handle. Rule of thumb is NOT to build the infrastructure too rigid, so overbuilding won't insure a quality ride.

OCKLAWAHA

[Dapperdan]

So to build 15 miles of the FCOB which includes building 5 interchanges and widening about 7 miles of that road (and building frontage lanes) will only cost $291MM?  That seems low considering this accounts for 1/3 of the entire FCOB that is expected to cost $1.8 billion.  The math just seems fuzzy to me.  I have a feeling in the end it will be much higher than $291MM.

Most of the Route all the way up to Oakleaf Plantion Parkway is already 4 lanes an they have purchased the ROW. What has never made sense to me is how we are being double charged for this whole thing. The road is already built, yet we are paying tolls to pay for the road. Makes sense, huh? We are paying for overpasses. Big, ugly overpasses.

[Charles Hunter]

A lot of the cost of the route over to I-95 involves a rather long river crossing, plus all of the land they will need from Middleburg to I-95.

[tufsu1]

The road is already built, yet we are paying tolls to pay for the road. Makes sense, huh?

there will actually be a frontage road paralleling the corridor through much of Clay County....and at the the northern end, the road deviates off Chafee (which will remain free)....and at the south it will deviate off Branan Field (which will also remain free).

that's how they can make the claim that they aren't tolling existing routes.

[thelakelander]

What about the section between Argyle Forest and 103rd Street?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

There will be frontage roads as well between Oakleaf and Blanding, from my understanding.  So it would seem that some toll booths could be avoided by everyday commuters looking to keep a buck or two each way, in their pocket.

...which then defeats and/or undermines the whole purpose of the toll roads, no?

The frontage roads are for the existing residents along Branan Field Rd who otherwise wouldn't be able to leave their driveway as the toll road would cut them off.

One could take the toll road from blanding to argyle, or take the frontage road from blanding to oakleaf, around oakleaf plantation and back onto Argyle.

and herein lies a problem.  With the added traffic (supposedly) along the beltway, developers will add more communities along the corridor which, in turn, will force someone to increase the capacity of the frontage roads to handle the 'extra' cars that would be 'forced' to use the toll way.  Why do you think Orlando has so many frontage roads that you can cut through, avoid a toll and not add a noticable amount of time to your commute?  A better question would be why can't we ever seem to learn from the past - even though it's well within a 20 year past?

[thelakelander]

^Good point.  I grew up in Central Florida and in every city, there are a number of local side streets you can take to avoid paying tolls and not add much time or mileage to your trips.

[tufsu1]

What about the section between Argyle Forest and 103rd Street?

that's a good question....the original plan was to build a 2 lane expressway there even if the private builder couldn't be found...not sure what they plan to do now

[Ocklawaha]

Q. "What if JTB had never been built. ..."  (JTA ad campaign)
A. St Johns Town Center would be located in LaVilla/Brooklyn.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

^Good one.