SJTC success has transformed First Coast retail landscape

[cline]

I know the Town Center can be unpopular here, but it is easily the single best thing that has happened to Jacksonville in the last ten years. The SJTC has, in very short time, brought dozens upon dozens of mid to high-end retailers and restaurants to Jacksonville that wouldn't have even touched the market otherwise. I don't care if it's not urban, or if it will only have a 30 year life cycle, or if the traffic and parking isn't ideal. It's bringing in tax money, and it's bettering quality of life in the city. It would never have happened downtown, at least not for another 20 years.

Boo-hoo for the Avenues and Regency. It's not like they didn't have their turn to lure retailers in from other places during their runs at the top. Getting upset about stores being taken away from either center by the SJTC is about as reasonable as being sad that Blockbuster is being bankrupted by Red Box. What goes around comes around. Plus, aside from Comp USA, I can't think of a single other store that moved from elsewhere in town to the Town Center, and the COMP USA was dying where it was anyway. Same with the Regency.

No, it's not perfect, but I just don't get the point in bashing one of few big-time Jacksonville success stories since landing the Super Bowl.

And this is exactly what people thought when the Avenues opened.  And before that, when Regency opened.  In 35-30 years it will be supplanted by the "next big thing". 

[finehoe]

how possible is it for a place like the town center to grow in density over time? Is it possible to reconfigure and renovate parcels of land to add parking structures, residential structures, etc in between existing buildings? Is it possible to add parking on top of existing buildings? Residential units on top of existing buildings?

They're doing it in Virginia:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052803262.html

[Jason]

I would say that it is definitely possible to add substantial density.  Those massive parking lots surrounding the complex could be easily covered by multi-story lofts sitting atop parking garages with street level retail and restaraunts.   IMO, the only major necessity would be a transit element connecting it to Downtown (perhaps via Southpoint/US1).

[thelakelander]

It won't happen without a change in land use and zoning.  Right now, our code basically prohibits walkable development from happening in the area on a large scale without going PUD.

[St. Auggie]

I know the Town Center can be unpopular here, but it is easily the single best thing that has happened to Jacksonville in the last ten years. The SJTC has, in very short time, brought dozens upon dozens of mid to high-end retailers and restaurants to Jacksonville that wouldn't have even touched the market otherwise. I don't care if it's not urban, or if it will only have a 30 year life cycle, or if the traffic and parking isn't ideal. It's bringing in tax money, and it's bettering quality of life in the city. It would never have happened downtown, at least not for another 20 years.

Boo-hoo for the Avenues and Regency. It's not like they didn't have their turn to lure retailers in from other places during their runs at the top. Getting upset about stores being taken away from either center by the SJTC is about as reasonable as being sad that Blockbuster is being bankrupted by Red Box. What goes around comes around. Plus, aside from Comp USA, I can't think of a single other store that moved from elsewhere in town to the Town Center, and the COMP USA was dying where it was anyway. Same with the Regency.

No, it's not perfect, but I just don't get the point in bashing one of few big-time Jacksonville success stories since landing the Super Bowl.

And this is exactly what people thought when the Avenues opened.  And before that, when Regency opened.  In 35-30 years it will be supplanted by the "next big thing". 

I always here people say this.  I have only lived here for 6 years, so my question is, what stores oopened in regency and avenues that had not been available to people in the region.  This is the case at the TC.  Stores that otherwise were not availble unless you drove for hours.  To my knowledge not many or not nearly as many as found at the TC.  So if that is the case this mall willl most likely have more staying power than those others.  Sure will a new hotspot most likely open up? Yep, but real cities have more than one hot spot.  Thank god we have one.

[thelakelander]

I'm not into mall type retail as many of the others here but I believe stores like Parisian (before being bought out by Belk) and Pottery Barn are examples of stores that the Avenues introduced into the Jacksonville region.

[copperfiend]

I remember the Avenues having a Discovery Channel store and the first Disney Store in the area. Everything else was pretty standard mall stuff.

[cline]

I know the Town Center can be unpopular here, but it is easily the single best thing that has happened to Jacksonville in the last ten years. The SJTC has, in very short time, brought dozens upon dozens of mid to high-end retailers and restaurants to Jacksonville that wouldn't have even touched the market otherwise. I don't care if it's not urban, or if it will only have a 30 year life cycle, or if the traffic and parking isn't ideal. It's bringing in tax money, and it's bettering quality of life in the city. It would never have happened downtown, at least not for another 20 years.

Boo-hoo for the Avenues and Regency. It's not like they didn't have their turn to lure retailers in from other places during their runs at the top. Getting upset about stores being taken away from either center by the SJTC is about as reasonable as being sad that Blockbuster is being bankrupted by Red Box. What goes around comes around. Plus, aside from Comp USA, I can't think of a single other store that moved from elsewhere in town to the Town Center, and the COMP USA was dying where it was anyway. Same with the Regency.

No, it's not perfect, but I just don't get the point in bashing one of few big-time Jacksonville success stories since landing the Super Bowl.

And this is exactly what people thought when the Avenues opened.  And before that, when Regency opened.  In 35-30 years it will be supplanted by the "next big thing".  

I always here people say this.  I have only lived here for 6 years, so my question is, what stores oopened in regency and avenues that had not been available to people in the region.  This is the case at the TC.  Stores that otherwise were not availble unless you drove for hours.  To my knowledge not many or not nearly as many as found at the TC.  So if that is the case this mall willl most likely have more staying power than those others.  Sure will a new hotspot most likely open up? Yep, but real cities have more than one hot spot.  Thank god we have one.

When Regency opened it was the largest indoor mall in the southeast.  It was also one of the more profitable malls in the country. So, it was the hotspot in the city.  Now, not so much.

[north miami]

Hey,anyone remember Orange Park Mall?? The ever outward expansion.Note too the "Town Centre" themes such as Oakleaf.

Have not been to Regency in years and the very last visit proved the place had gone to potentially dangerous.

Have not been to the Avenues because SJTC always wins out.
(Marketing genius- named "St.Johns" rather than "Duval")

I like the mix of stores and open air theme-imagine what an improvement to close the road and parking between the storefronts to vehicles and open to pedestrian only.......

Perhaps the end of America will be marked by inability to further accommodate such historical expansion.

[iluvolives]

I typically only go to the Town Center if I need something from a store that is only located there, like Sephora- otherwise I still prefer stores at the Avenues, they seem to have more inventory than the ones at the TC. For example the GAP or BR have much more selection at their Avenues locations. The Belk at the Avenues also has a more high end selection of products than the Dillards at the TC.

[fieldafm]

IMO the mall is surviving, it may not have as many major anchors as it used to, but I honestly dont think Regency Or the avenues for that matter is going anywhere anytime soon.

Regency is running about a 35% vacancy rate AT CHRISTMAS right now and there have very few corporate stores as tenants as a percentage of overall mix.  Also, the revenue/sq ft is very low when compared to its same-city peers.  Those things added together clearly indicate Regency Mall is at a certain point in its life cycle.  IMO, Simon needs to do something drastic with Regency before it follows down the same path as Normandy Mall and Gateway Mall.  They need to look no further than Fortress and Roosevelt Square.

Was at the Town Center today.  Captain, TC does have the PCT trolleys running routes end to end.  I do share your same complaint about the Town Center in that the only residential component has failed b/c it was basically an afterthought in the design.  You can't tell me you dont walk up and down the main strip of the St Johns Town Center and it doesnt remind you of King Street in Charleston... minus the residential component.  Thats really where SJTC really missed a prime opportunity. 

I for one think projects such as Tapestry Park should be encouraged in that area of town.  It is becoming the heart of the city like it or not, might as well make it more liveable.

[jandar]

Normandy Mall, Gateway, Roosevelt Mall, Market Square Mall, Cedar Hills... (and quite a few others including ones in St Augustine)

All had plenty of visitors and stores to keep them shopping there.
What happened? People moved from the tighter city cores to the suburbs, and Regency and Orange Park Malls benefited. Avenues jumped in the fray, now they all are losing some to other malls. Regency and Avenues to SJTC, Orange Park to Oakleaf Town Center (the area at least, not the actual single zoned development).

In 10-15 years, there will be a bigger St Johns County mall that will hurt SJTC, or people will move to another part of town, maybe even back downtown one day (imagine that?) what would SJTC do? They will lose some business, its all a cycle.

But the saddest part of SJTC? It has turned into a drive to mall. Where are all of the housing/apartments? Instead of building places, they want to build more things like the Markets, or Zaxby's. The core of SJTC is walkable, but would you walk from Best Buy to Publix? Nope, its not the same area, you get in your car and drive it. And the amount of traffic there is Orange Parkesque in many ways.

[ProjectMaximus]

^^^That's the first truly positive comment I have heard about the Regency Mall.  Me personally?  I feel like I might get shot everytime I go near Regency.  The mall is really not surviving, anyways.  It's nearly dead.  It has been on a long decline ever since Montgomery Ward left there in the 90s.

IDK its just me. Ive never had any fear of going to Regency. I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I was raised in a very "urban" environement. Regency, or anywhere in Jacksonville does not put any fear in my heart. I stayed in Arlington for three years and visited regency constantly. They personally have the stores that I shop at. IMO the mall is surviving, it may not have as many major anchors as it used to, but I honestly dont think Regency Or the avenues for that matter is going anywhere anytime soon.

And how can you not feel safe with all those police cars!?!

[ProjectMaximus]

I for one think projects such as Tapestry Park should be encouraged in that area of town.  It is becoming the heart of the city like it or not, might as well make it more liveable.

Absolutely.