Light Rail Commuters in Clay versus the Outer Beltway??

[Mattius92]

Commuting from Clay to other parts of the city usually takes over 45 minutes of traffic and other problems along the way.

Two options to improve this has came up many times. First is the $1.8 Billion Outer Beltway, second is the idea of an Light Rail Commuter from Clay to Downtown Jacksonville, were you can transfer so you can travel to other parts of the city. Some say that Jacksonville isn't dense enough for mass transit like that. However it has been proven that when they are created, the areas around them tend to dense up.

Would you rather have an beltway or an Light Rail Commuter?

[thelakelander]

I'll take commuter rail. Its significantly cheaper and does not take a toll on the sustainability of the surrounding environment.

[jandar]

I would take commuter rail, however, it would take me just as long as it would to drive.

If downtown were the hub, and the parts of town the spokes, it would work for all but Clay County (or those in St Johns who work in Orange Park, if any......)

Sure, those that work downtown would benefit as greatly as other parts of the area.
However, those of us who live in Clay and work on the southside would have to go downtown first, then back to the southside, making the traveling time the same as a car drive. The hub and spoke setup would work for everyone else though.

If you add a couple of direct spurs though, you could cover more area and get more ridership.
Not only does it have to be cheaper than a car drive, but the time taken needs to be as good or better. If you factor in the drive time to get to a station, and then parking and waiting for a train as well as the commute, then the wait for the connector and back out, it would take longer in some cases. These are the people that will be least likely to ride commuter rail.

[Mattius92]

Like people have said before, our biggest asset (The St. Johns River) is also a huge barrier for us. Creation of another bridge across the St Johns might be one of the best investments.

If they were to build a commuter line across the St Johns then that might solve the problem of going around around your back to get to your elbow.

However, a highway bridge would be a better investment, a highway bridge and with a commuter down the middle would be the best. Never is going to happen though.

[north miami]

                                ****   Bumper Sticker  ****

                         AS A MATTER OF FACT I DO OWN THE ROAD

[north miami]

Beltway promoters have been careful to highlight "development" and "economic" aspects rather than traffic alleviation and actual benefits to current citizens,and for good reason.
The traffic alleviation image is firmly established,and erroneous,becomming firmly entrenched during the decades long promotion of the Brannon/Chaffee segment as viable alleviation for the Blanding Corridor which was compromised by the same development pressures,philosophy and indeed inviduals that have proven key drivers behind the beltway.
Those truly astute on these matters have either moved away or opted out in the first place.
by the way-there is significant Rail design within the Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan concept- a key "selling" feature of the B/C Sector Plan.

[JeffreyS]

Commuter rail would not take everyone where they need to go. However it would shape how things develop so as time goes by more and more of peoples destinations would be started or moved to take advantage of the rail line.

[Mattius92]

Commuter rail would not take everyone where they need to go. However it would shape how things develop so as time goes by more and more of peoples destinations would be started or moved to take advantage of the rail line.

Thats why we need an commuter rail, at first it might not be of use. However I think in the long run, it will greatly help the Jacksonville Metro Area. It would probably even promote office and residential development in Downtown Jacksonville. Also it might actually put to use the Skyway.

[north miami]

Thats why we need an commuter rail, at first it might not be of use. However I think in the long run, it will greatly help the Jacksonville Metro Area. It would probably even promote office and residential development in Downtown Jacksonville. Also it might actually put to use the Skyway.
[/quote]

Clay & St.Johns have been working overtime to provide an "alternative" to Duval county employment centers.
The respectuive county comprehensive plans depict the future trends.

[Mattius92]

The outer beltway will just develop Clay county even more. We need to stop building out, but up.

[St. Auggie]

Three different threads on the Outer beltway.  I guess this has folks all riled up.  Maybe we should all just go and buy realestate in Clay and get happy about this instead.

[kells904]

Three different threads on the Outer beltway.  I guess this has folks all riled up.  Maybe we should all just go and buy realestate in Clay and get happy about this instead.

Depending on just how rabid they are about building that stupid road, you might be on to something.  Then we can join in the "sprawlabration".

[lewyn]

"Light rail commuter" is an oxymoron.  Light rail and commuter rail are two very different things.  Light rail runs more often, more slowly, and has more stops.  Commuter rail tends to have fewer stops farther apart.   Even in very transit-friendly cities, commuter rail often runs only once an hour or so, while light rail runs every few minutes.  Thus, light rail is much more likely to affect development than commuter rail.

Here's a more detailed, technical explanation:

http://www.trainweb.org/kenrail/Rail_mode_defined.html

[JeffreyS]

Yes commuter rail would be the appropriate title for clay.

[stjr]

From the 9B thread I posted this:

The question I have is when are the residents, businesses, and political leaders of DUVAL County that support 9B and the Outer Beltway going to realize:

(1) these highways mostly benefit and promote residents moving to St. Johns and Clay Counties
(2) cost Duval taxpayers in additional infrastructure and traffic burdens within Duval
(3) fail to deliver significant offsetting revenues to Duval to pay for such burdens as most of these road users live and shop in the adjacent counties
(4) negatively impact business and residents in Duval County by siphoning off higher income residents and new businesses to the adjacent counties
(5) divert state monies from Duval mass transit projects, road improvements, and other state funded programs such as education.

There is absolutely no SANE and RATIONAL reason for Duval County politicos, if they truly represent Duval residents, to support these projects and yet they are all lined up to do so.  Could it be due to campaign contributions?  Back room deals?