Notes from SPAR public meeting - 10.29

[Gonzo]

Well Gonzo.  I still like you.

I have been at the beach taking care of my very ill mother.

Stephen, I am very sorry to hear about your mother. I do not wish that kind of difficulty and heartache on anyone. As someone who lost a parent at an early age to a disease that took its time to do its business, I can certainly empathize.

And as a person, you may not be the devil incarnate. But, here, especially when some folks are trying to have a productive conversation, you butt in with a particularly vapid tact that really works contrary to your supposed goals.

If you read the threads you will see that the problem isnt that people are expressing their opinions or wanting input.  Notice that Lake has presented a fairly rational set of suggestions.

No one is interested in them.

What do you think thats about?

I do read the threads and there is a lot of ignorance out there. Some folks post just to stir the pot. Others because of an inflated sense of self-importance. Still others post informative, thoughtful posts --these I really like. Some people provide intelligent counterpoints.

As I say in my previous post, it is when people try to make an intelligence post and the thread gets hijacked and turned into a bash-the-residents free-for-all that I take offense. I don't like seeing others get trampled -- which is why I try to take a middle of the road stance on a lot of things.

What I would like is a return to interesting, constructive debate that can truly help repair some of the wrongs instead of people shouting for other's heads on platters.

[thelakelander]

Gonzo, I'll try and answer a few of your questions:

Done right, I don't see a problem with the car wash. But, done right.

What does done right mean?  What are the features that you would classify as "done right."?  These are the things that should be expressed to the owner when he's presenting his business concept.  This is the type of information that can make or break a project.

Its OK for him to issue statements of how bad SPAR is but, not OK for people who actually live in the affected area to speak up about the type of businesses are in their neighborhood.

Its fine for people to voice their concern about businesses going into the neighborhood.  In fact, it should happen.  Its the only way to ensure that a community develops the long term vision it seeks.  However, those concerns should come in the form of attempting to work with the business owner instead of completely shutting the concept down without really listening.  Its not fine to hijack threads and stay off topic.  It gets annoying for everyone.

Springfield has an abundance of convenience stores.

Jacksonville has an abundance of grocery stores.  Should this mean that one should never come to Springfield?  Springfield has an abundance of restaurants.  Should this mean that another one should not open anywhere in the neighborhood?  My guess is if the market is not there for his car wash (which is the real use they want), they will eventually close.  However, if worked with, at least if they close, you end up with a property in better condition than it is today.

I would be fine with it as long as beer and wine is not sold there and loitering is strictly forbidden. Is that too restrictive?

This is the type of concern that should be addressed when the owner presents his concept.  Were these concerns mentioned last night?  If so, what was his response?

But, there is at least six other stores within a four block radius that already serve those segments of the market.

Doesn't Uptown Market sell wine and serve beer?  That appears to be okay, so there is a difference even though several places already sell these products.  What can be done to share with the owner and ensure that the final product is a positive to the community?

The question I posed regarding adult businesses remains unanswered: if a strip club, adult video or toy store wanted to go in, would you support them the same way?

I missed this question but there is a big difference.  The store is allowed under the CCG-S zoning, while strip clubs, adult video, adult toy stores are not.  Car washes are allowed by exception, the adult examples, like a coal mine or phosphate plant, are not.  Apples and oranges.  If the community does not want convenience stores, it needs to revise the zoning ordinance it helped crafted.

[strider]

According to the "spar Speak" on line, :

Neighbors have voiced concerns and favor a special meeting to give them time to put issues on the table and to help with solutions to those issues. There will be a "Town Meeting" here at the SPAR building next Thursday at 7:00 P.M. This special meeting was not on schedules previously sent out, so be sure to tell your friends and neighbors and ask them to come with you. There is a lot of excitement from people who have heard about our community and want to live here, and many people are voicing their willingness to be involved and do what they can for Springfield. Come on out and lets make some plans for how we can have a crime free, fun filled, peaceful, beautiful community!

So, the date for this meeting is :

November Events

11/5 Town Meeting, 1321 N Main St., 7pm

Could be an interesting meeting....

[ChriswUfGator]

calling code enforcement in mass was recommended to get the city's attention on this issue.

Not trying to re-start WWIII here, but if SPAR keeps that specific BS up, then they're eventually going to run into a landlord who will put the hurt on them. And from the impression I got, this might happen a little sooner than you might think.

There are two problems for SPAR; one being that it's tortious interference and eventually they're going to get clipped for it, but the other one is that every time they do this, doesn't SPAR realize that COJ knows what's going on when all of a sudden they get 100 calls all about the same property? They're just trashing their own credibility downtown every time they do this.

[tufsu1]

As an uppity white person, im perfectly entitled to use the term, thank you.

I beg to differ greatly with this argument...no matter who makes it.

[nvrenuf]

calling code enforcement in mass was recommended to get the city's attention on this issue.

Not trying to re-start WWIII here, but if SPAR keeps that specific BS up, then they're eventually going to run into a landlord who will put the hurt on them. And from the impression I got, this might happen a little sooner than you might think.

There are two problems for SPAR; one being that it's tortious interference and eventually they're going to get clipped for it, but the other one is that every time they do this, doesn't SPAR realize that COJ knows what's going on when all of a sudden they get 100 calls all about the same property? They're just trashing their own credibility downtown every time they do this.

It was actually a neighbor who made this comment not a SPAR rep. And the person who owns it actually wants it torn down and we haven't figured out yet why others come down and this one hasn't.

[ChriswUfGator]

calling code enforcement in mass was recommended to get the city's attention on this issue.

Not trying to re-start WWIII here, but if SPAR keeps that specific BS up, then they're eventually going to run into a landlord who will put the hurt on them. And from the impression I got, this might happen a little sooner than you might think.

There are two problems for SPAR; one being that it's tortious interference and eventually they're going to get clipped for it, but the other one is that every time they do this, doesn't SPAR realize that COJ knows what's going on when all of a sudden they get 100 calls all about the same property? They're just trashing their own credibility downtown every time they do this.

It was actually a neighbor who made this comment not a SPAR rep. And the person who owns it actually wants it torn down and we haven't figured out yet why others come down and this one hasn't.

Ah, OK, that's different then. A short while ago it came out that SPAR had a list of places for people to call in complaints about, so when I read that comment it seemed like this was more of the same. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

[chris farley]

FSU wrote the following
Hogans Creek Plan was VERY impressive. For a preliminary report and design....wow.....it looks very good. Hit a home run with it so far. I think the guy in charge said it would probably take 2-3 years to secure the funding, which is dissappointing but relaistic. It looks like a 100 million+ dollar project. So maybe 5 years from now you're looking at completion?
end quote - I do not know how to do the quoting the other way

I agree the plan looked great, I am sad the Klutho walls would go,  but if you go down Market today the road is flooded - the tide came in and the water comes up into the park from the swamp underneath.  I know it is great the Health Dept land will become park again, but I do not think they allowed enough water catch areas.  When it rains so that we really flood, it is a 15 to 20 acre pond.  I would hate to see all those millions spent and then with a couple of large floods see much washed away.  I know they wish to fill but the weight of the fill pushes the mire and sludge up into the creek - Imeson and Klutho knew what they were doing allowing for water to come up through the bottom of the creek and keeping the river out at high tide.  I know that will not be allowed to happen again so I worry about floods.  If the surrounding park land is raised you know where the water will go.  I understand that the Army Corps of Engineers are now back in the picture, and also any plans for water catchment or drainage have to be looked over and approved by so called water experts - I don't remember the name used.  All in all it is great to see movement on improving the parks and I think something will happend, maybe sooner than we think

[thelakelander]

All of the Klutho walls would go?

[Dan B]

Its not much of a surprise that there is a push for removing the walls. I did quite a bit of reading on Urban creeks back when I was active on the Parks issue. De-channelizing urban creeks is a big trend in the green movement.

Personally, I think it would be an awful thing to do, and that the neighborhood needs to speak up to save its architectural heritage.

[thelakelander]

I agree Dan B.

[cindi]

isn't work of past on hogan's creek the what ultimately destroyed the castle?

[Dan B]

isn't work of past on hogan's creek the what ultimately destroyed the castle?

Which castle, Cindi? Drew Castle at 3rd and Pearl?

If so, The settling is because it was essentially built on a marsh.A friend tells me that the house is in pretty good shape overall, but it needs significant foundation work. It has settled by several feet in some places.

[cindi]

dan, that is the one.  i had obviously been giving erroneous info.  i was told that the last time the city did "diversional" work on hogan's creek it somehow did substantial damage to the basement (the destruction of which i mentioned). we all know that everytime a rain cloud passes over that place it is flooded. 

[ChriswUfGator]

The Drew house got torn down? Seriously? When was this?