Notes from SPAR public meeting - 10.29

[sandyshoes]

Thank you, Dan B for the link and info on the 'ghost house'...I'll also google and see if I can learn more about the "Van Horn empire" so I don't make a pest of myself with the group.  Wish it were possible to safely get pix of the inside of the shell of the house, I can't wait to learn more!  You guys should publish a Springfield book with all your pix and info, seriously.  Peace.

[fsu813]

word last night was human feces were visible by looking through the window. not sure you'd want a pic of that =P

[sandyshoes]

    ugh!  no.

[fsu813]

i could pick this claim apart, but i digress.

[strider]

I am very glad that had a real meeting for part of last night. I do have to say that I have been to meetings where board members wanted to have a discussion about something and were "stonewalled".  I have to agree with Stephen that this part of the meeting occurred because the membership at large wanted it too, not that the Executive board wanted it too.

FSU813, I have to admit that I was disappointed at Louise’s letter in the newsletter.  You stated that she addressed many "misconceptions" and so I was looking forward to a few of the hard issues being addressed in some fashion.  Instead, I found the letter missing most of the point of all of this. Not surprising, I must admit. Perhaps she addressed some of them verbally at the meeting?  If so, I would be interested in her comments. As an example, was the subject of elections brought up?

The "ghost house" may actually not be that bad structurally.  It is missing a lot of siding now which makes it look worse than it really is.  Note that it is still very much standing as the "bones" are probably not all that bad.  As to what may or may not be found inside it, anyone around these house very much has seen pretty much that and much worse.  No one knows or cares about all that once the house is restored and beautiful again. Of course, if the empty lot is worth more than a historic house on that part of 8th, then I'm sure it will come down eventually.

And yes, I will plan on attending any "forum" or meeting on the "rooming house" issue.  There are meetings scheduled with the city by both “parties” , so  I would suppose the "forum" will happen after both of those meetings.   

And yes, Ms. Lucy’s Rooming House still looks about the same as it did in 1960.  I think this is the same time that JFK ate dinner here in Springfield at the house on Hubbard street that is now Alco House.  The doctor (can’t remember his name) who owned it at the time was a big Kennedy supporter locally.  He eventually left the house to the non-profit be used as it is now.

[fsu813]

i didn't say she addressed every concern, Strider. just many that were brought up int he last couple weeks.

ie,

- there's no list of houses to be demo'd
- what they are involved in specifically
- LOLAS stereotype
etc.

about six topics that are commonly brought up.

[Dan B]

Joe, its the Dr Daniels House.

[strider]

Thanks Dan!  That rang the old bell when I read it.

[Gonzo]

No that isnt the question fsu813.

The question is who the hell are you to have a forum on someone else's right to be there.

We are the people who have already invested our time, sweat and blood in homes we love. We are the people who would love to see businesses which serve the community AND bring those from out side the community here. We are the people who would like to reverse the negative opinion most of our city has about the Springfield neighborhood. We, of all people, have the right to have our say in whether a business should be part of our community. The city has zoning laws to control the types of businesses that can be opened in certain areas. Would your argument be the same if it were an adult entertainment facility (read strip club, video store, etc.) going in?

Why not have a public forum about what to do with SPAR.

There are many residents who want SPAR out of the neighborhood now (as you can see from the grafitti that has been popping up around the neighborhood)

I think I have mentioned in posts on anther thread that I am taking a wait and see attitude towards SPAR. I do not harbor any ill will towards anyone there, more like disappointment in how things have been run lately. As are many others. Graffiti is hardly a measure of neighborhood displeasure, more an indication that hoodlums need to be reigned in.

You seem to be mounting a full-scale offensive against SPAR. The more you spout your venomous rhetoric, the more cartoonish and ridiculous you look.

Seriously?

Your having a neighborhood forum?  You people are breathtaking in your arrogance.

Spoken like a man who is sure that his is the only valid opinion. Several times I have run into you at Three Layers and have expressed how I enjoyed reading the articles on this site. I have praised you on the insightful stories and engaging dialog. But, lately I am just appalled at your pompousness and vitriolic diatribe. And this from someone who no longer lives here and throws stones from across the street.

And now you have lowered yourself to throwing out racial slurs. I am offended where before I was merely annoyed by your ignorance. The next time I see you at Three Layers I will not speak kindly how I enjoy your site. As a matter of fact, I will not even acknowledge your existence, since you have negated my rights as a RESIDENT to express my opinion free from scathing, vile remarks.

I am of a mind to live and let live. I try to speak to people how I wish to be spoken to. But, I am also a proponent of MEANINGFUL debate. You are just a bully who spouts insults and drivel from behind the safety of your trusty laptop, without which you would be marginalized and powerless.

[strider]

As a reminder, FSU813, I said:

FSU813, I have to admit that I was disappointed at Louise’s letter in the newsletter.  You stated that she addressed many "misconceptions" and so I was looking forward to a few of the hard issues being addressed in some fashion.  Instead, I found the letter missing most of the point of all of this. Not surprising, I must admit. Perhaps she addressed some of them verbally at the meeting?  If so, I would be interested in her comments. As an example, was the subject of elections brought up?

and you said:

i didn't say she addressed every concern, Strider. just many that were brought up int he last couple weeks.

ie,

- there's no list of houses to be demo'd
- what they are involved in specifically
- LOLAS stereotype
etc.

about six topics that are commonly brought up.

So I take that to mean she did not address any of the tough issues...like explaining her e-mail, the lack of elections, and the various lies and innuendo she and others have been spreading about the rooming house issues.

Just wanted to know.

[sheclown]

To Quote From Gonzo:  We, of all people, have the right to have our say in whether a business should be part of our community.

Actually, you have to be careful here.  While the city does have zoning laws and we have the overlay, you cannot use the overlay to discriminate against businesses that offer services to a particular class or type of person.

What is going to happen here in Springfield is that someone, somewhere is going to challenge the overlay in court and Springfield will lose its overlay.  Or at the very least, the weakness of the overlay will be displayed.

Be careful of the fights you choose to fight.  A car wash/convenience store is certainly not worth it (nor is a sober house).

[sheclown]

Spoken like a man who is sure that his is the only valid opinion. Several times I have run into you at Three Layers and have expressed how I enjoyed reading the articles on this site. I have praised you on the insightful stories and engaging dialog. But, lately I am just appalled at your pompousness and vitriolic diatribe. And this from someone who no longer lives here and throws stones from across the street.
And now you have lowered yourself to throwing out racial slurs. I am offended where before I was merely annoyed by your ignorance. The next time I see you at Three Layers I will not speak kindly how I enjoy your site. As a matter of fact, I will not even acknowledge your existence, since you have negated my rights as a RESIDENT to express my opinion free from scathing, vile remarks.

Stephen has earned his right speak up for and about Springfield.  Decades of his life have been spent here. 

Honestly, racial slurs?  From Stephen?  Where?

[thelakelander]

Its more entertaining to argue?

[Gonzo]

But thats because I dont just talk to the uppity white people who live out there.  You should try it sometimes.  It has to be boring talking to the same 25 people all the time.

This is a racial slur, but the reverse of what most people think of as one.

I do not doubt that Stephen has lived her a while, but that does not give him the right to spew the type of venom that is evident here and in the thread talking about the Car Wash.

Done right, I don't see a problem with the car wash. But, done right. Just as I do not have an issue with a thrift store. Many neighborhoods have sprung up on the strength of funky, hip stores of that type. In my home town of St. Louis there is a district known as the Delmar Loop that is just that type of an area. It started as a stroll for the prostitutes, store owners moved in and started putting in retro clothing stores, thrift stores and used vinyl stores. A hip, young crowd began hanging out in the area. Soon the movie theater reopened and began showing art house movies and Rocky Horror at midnight on weekends. Some funky restaurants and coffe houses moved in and a district was born.

The issue I have, is that reasonable people try to have a civil dialog and Stephen hijacks it and twists it to his own agenda. Its OK for him to issue statements of how bad SPAR is but, not OK for people who actually live in the affected area to speak up about the type of businesses are in their neighborhood. Springfield has an abundance of convenience stores. If Mr. Jones would like to add a store to his enterprise, I would be fine with it as long as beer and wine is not sold there and loitering is strictly forbidden. Is that too restrictive? Maybe. But, there is at least six other stores within a four block radius that already serve those segments of the market. The question I posed regarding adult businesses remains unanswered: if a strip club, adult video or toy store wanted to go in, would you support them the same way?

[sheclown]

Its more entertaining to argue?

IS NOT!