A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside

[thelakelander]

Money and much more people. Less consolidation. I think many locals prefer the small town feel of the area and would resist this kind of bigger city urban development.

To me, a dense and smart urban neighborhood feels more small town than SJTC.  The town center just feels like disneyworld or anywhere, USA.  San Marco Square, Avondale, Riverside, and the beach hubs are what feel like small towns, and those are the areas that are beginning to incorporate density (with the exception of Avondale).

SJTC is a traditional regional mall without a roof.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[tufsu1]

There seems to be a misconception on the price of projects with things we actually already spend money on that don't deliver the same benefits.  Until we can bridge that link and sell it, the entire idea will tread water locally.

Agreed...I surprised a few folks last week when I told them we could build a streetcar system connecting Riverside, Downtown, Stadium, and Springfield for $100 million....and that most of our major interchange projects were costing more than that these days!

[thelakelander]

Yes, Mullaney was suprised when we told him that it would cost less to build a streetcar from Riverside to DT than it cost for the construction of the Beach/Kernan overpass ($43 million).  Since we had internet access at our meeting, we immediately pulled up information and photos of streetcar projects in Little Rock and Memphis as visual examples.  It was one thing to preach it but being able to offer visual proof (on the spot) of successful implementation and resulting TOD (in cities Jax's size and smaller), then tying it in to his vision (the one from his KC trip) was pretty impactful.

[cline]

When you think about the fact that the I-10/I-95 interchange is going to cost 148 million in construction alone (205 million total), it is really eye-opening.  What are the totoal benefits of that project compared with building a streetcar system that would cost roughly half that amount (or less)?  I'm not saying we don't need a new interchange, but I see much more benefit (direct and indirect) with a streetcar system than I do with this interchange.  And this is only one example, there are many.

[stjr]

Lake, is the total document available over the internet to view?  There are references to detailed pages I would like to see but I don't see any links.

Was this study done for the City of Jax?  What do the users plan to do with this next?

[Joe]

Is the full plan available for download?

edit - Sorry, I didn't see stjr's post asking the same question. Anyway, I'd love to see the documents if they are available.

[tufsu1]

Info. on all 3 vision plans currently underway can be found here

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning+and+Development/Community+Planning/Visioning.htm

[seanhimself]

This is great. It all begins with a vision. Many of you need to have a positive outlook and hope for the best rather than look at this negatively.

It's improvements like these that drive people to our city and can help fund it in the future. Cities across the country take steps like this to better themselves and Jacksonville really needs to start.

[tufsu1]

I'm just curious how these Vision Plans fit in a "no vision, no plan" administration...any thoughts CS 

[JaxNative68]

Jacksonville won't go for it unless all those modern glass buildings in the rendering look like faux Mediterranean revival buildings cheaply built out of eifs!

[CS Foltz]

tufsu.............still going through all of the links right now...........vision is real nice, but a plan to reproduce the pretty pictures......don't see anything about it yet! Real easy to draw color pictures, I could do that, but to have something spring into reality, something completely different! Talk is real cheap and so is the art work, don't see anything about funding or making it come to life! Try walking across Southside Blvd at rush hour, you will understand just what I refer too! NTPO had come up with plans to upgrade Bay Meadows and don't see anything about that being integrated into an overall concept.........once again wish in one hand, excrete in the other and see which fills up first!

[9a is my backyard]

When you think about the fact that the I-10/I-95 interchange is going to cost 148 million in construction alone (205 million total), it is really eye-opening.  What are the totoal benefits of that project compared with building a streetcar system that would cost roughly half that amount (or less)?  I'm not saying we don't need a new interchange, but I see much more benefit (direct and indirect) with a streetcar system than I do with this interchange.  And this is only one example, there are many.

Good point. This is a problem we're going to be facing more and more. All of our aging infrastructure will need to be replaced soon, often times with little to no capacity/efficiency improvements. In a lot of cases, it's essentially like millions of dollars are being spent simply to replace what already exists. As you said, it's necessary but it can be a little disheartening.  

MJ ran an article about a year ago on the overland bridge replacement project that will get going underway soon. It's $170+ million just to replace the bridge.  Again, no one is saying it's not necessary, but at some point we have to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Even now, with the economy down and unemployement up (read: fewer cars on the road), traffic is still backed up on the major highways throughout town. What about when those cars return? We can't continue to build bigger roads because, in many places, there simply isn't room. Look at the JTB/95 interchange. They could only make small improvements because there isn't room to 'properly' reconstruct the interchange.

Adding to this problem is the 'creative' infrastructure that is prevalent throughout the area. There are far more highway engineers, planners, construction workers, etc than the equivalent rail workers. That's not to say we can do mass transit, but the average planner/engineer's response to transportation issues has just been to build more roads. This attitude is changing (with increasing pace, thankfully), but it is still a problem that needs to be overcome.

As Lake said, would it not be better to implement cheaper road fixes and spend the savings on mass transit infrastructure? We can't continue to spend so much money just replacing existing roadways that are already overburdened at peak hours. By investing in mass transit, we can take cars off the roads, making our roadways better without spending a dime on the roads themselves. We're getting there, but the public, politicians, and the designers and construction workers all need to continue to be educated on the issues.

[OhJay]

they need to think something up for the north side,

[jandar]

they need to think something up for the north side,

Northside and Westside? Bah, who cares about those. Its all about the Southside and beaches. You need to move there. Closer to jobs, you cost the city less in road repair from commutes, and you too can live the american dream!

Seriously though, Westside and Northside will always be a second thought in this city. Has been this way for over 30 yrs.

[Sportmotor]

Good article.