Mandarin residents see I-295 edge closer to homes; bypassed by benefit

[coredumped]

With that said, I'm all for tolling. Roads are the biggest loser of money when it comes to construction cost and ongoing maintenance. Why more than something like the Skyway would ever run taxpayers. To recoup some of those costs, user fees......just like paying a fare for the bus, makes sense.

I already pay my "toll" for the roads in the form of:
* Gas tax
* Sales tax
* Drivers License
* Car/Truck registration

If that's not enough money for them I would argue something is mismanaged and needs to be looked at.

I really hope these lanes are the failure I think they'll be, and that they'll sit empty most of the time.

And what about the bigger picture here? Paying the government extra money can get you something extra - when did that become acceptable? Can I pay a few bucks and skip people in line at the DMV?

[thelakelander]

^There's a reason you don't see the private sector investing in billions to fund highways. It's not nearly enough money. It's not about those funds being mismanaged. It's about roadway construction and maintenance simply costing taxpayers more money than those "tolls" generate. With that said, perhaps if we stopped subsidizing gas to the amount that we do in this country, the extra taxes might generate a lot more than they currently do.

[southsider1015]

No In My Back Yard -- NIMBY, we all know the concept. It's an important factor because of . . . American taxpayers. Very involved American taxpayers. Who know what they like and prefer, and who don't care to be told what they *should* like and prefer. And they happen to have working in their favor an economic business model that supports their desires (transportation work pumps up the economy; road construction jobs *are* important).

The Clay County vs St. Johns County battle on the bridge question is fairly representative of a MetroJacksonville issue that is certainly equal to an urban core issue. I'm sympathetic to the desire to buttress the urban core but the railing against "things suburban" and the blatant ignoring of the severe difficulties of right-of-way acquisition, etc., while juggling the concurrent taxpayer demand for suburban roadway relief and improvements is disappointing. They aren't ignoramuses at FDOT; it's probably the most professional state agency we have. But . . . politics and stakeholders have to be appreciated.

This metrojacksonville.com website could probably do a much better institutional job of draping some sunshine onto the PD&E process (project development and environmental assessment) for important projects in Northeast Florida:

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/emo/pubs/pdeman/handouts/2014/Public%20Involvement%20in%20-PDE_2014_EMS_June%203%202014.pdf

by standardizing some overlay that's applicable to the important questions and concerns both driving the project and limiting the FDOT projects as well. Please forgive my ignorance if y'all are, in fact, already doing something like this.

Finally.  An informed opinion.  Infrastructure spending, even roadway construction, is an economic driver in this state. 

[tufsu1]

^ yes...because folks like Lakelander and I aren't informed....and clearly we don't work in the transportation planning field either

[thelakelander]

Infrastructure spending, even roadway construction, is an economic driver in this state.

I don't think anyone ever said it wasn't an economic driver. It's pretty clear taxpayers are supporting several planning firms, engineers, consultants, pavement contractors, concrete companies, real estate development firms, big landowners, etc. That's the primary reason a good chunk of our infrastructure projects built over the last few decades. The challenge we have is that relying on the taxpayer to bear the big burden of putting bread on everyone's table isn't financially viable long term.

[southsider1015]

^ yes...because folks like Lakelander and I aren't informed....and clearly we don't work in the transportation planning field either

Wasn't trying to imply that you weren't. I consider both if you informed, even if I disagree with your opinions.

It's the 20 other opinions that are clearly uninformed here.

[southsider1015]

Infrastructure spending, even roadway construction, is an economic driver in this state.

I don't think anyone ever said it wasn't an economic driver. It's pretty clear taxpayers are supporting several planning firms, engineers, consultants, pavement contractors, concrete companies, real estate development firms, big landowners, etc. That's the primary reason a good chunk of our infrastructure projects built over the last few decades. The challenge we have is that relying on the taxpayer to bear the big burden of putting bread on everyone's table isn't financially viable long term.

You mean local dollars?  if it's not the taxpayer, who is it?  if you're making the point about tolls, I agree.  Usage/user based taxing makes complete sense.  Once we get the VMTs issue figure out, funding will be easier to figure out.

[southsider1015]

With that said, I'm all for tolling. Roads are the biggest loser of money when it comes to construction cost and ongoing maintenance. Why more than something like the Skyway would ever run taxpayers. To recoup some of those costs, user fees......just like paying a fare for the bus, makes sense.

I already pay my "toll" for the roads in the form of:
* Gas tax
* Sales tax
* Drivers License
* Car/Truck registration

If that's not enough money for them I would argue something is mismanaged and needs to be looked at.

I really hope these lanes are the failure I think they'll be, and that they'll sit empty most of the time.

And what about the bigger picture here? Paying the government extra money can get you something extra - when did that become acceptable? Can I pay a few bucks and skip people in line at the DMV?

The average American spends more on Starbucks than on gas taxes.  I'll quote my source once I find it.

Managed lanes are about choice and guarentees.  Need to get somewhere at an exact or guarentees time?  Late for a meeting or appointment?  Pay the toll and make it on time.  Or leave early, sit in traffic, and maybe you'll make it.  Or schedule your life outside of the peak hours, and drive for free.  Options.

Frankly, it's not enough.  The cost to plan/design/acquire/finance/build/maintain has risen over the last few decades.  But our systems are, without a doubt, more safe, more efficient, and more maintainable now more than ever, and will continue to improve.

[thelakelander]

Infrastructure spending, even roadway construction, is an economic driver in this state.

I don't think anyone ever said it wasn't an economic driver. It's pretty clear taxpayers are supporting several planning firms, engineers, consultants, pavement contractors, concrete companies, real estate development firms, big landowners, etc. That's the primary reason a good chunk of our infrastructure projects built over the last few decades. The challenge we have is that relying on the taxpayer to bear the big burden of putting bread on everyone's table isn't financially viable long term.

You mean local dollars?  if it's not the taxpayer, who is it?

The key is sustainable spending. It doesn't matter whether it's local, state or federal. You can't spend just to spend if you don't have the cash. Thus, we need to be more financially responsible with the projects we decide to fund.

[Overstreet]

Lexus lane?..................just keep in mind my 14 year old 4x4 Chevy truck has Harris County EZ pass and Florida Sun Pass accounts. The express lanes often skip stop lights and traffic. They are worth the cost if you drive a lot. Lots of business service trucks also us the lanes to expedite travel around town.

I've lived in Mandarin most of the last 30 years. I avoid that stretch of I295 (San Jose to I-95) at rush hour anyway because it backs up due to volume.  Express lanes should lower some of that back up if they carry some of the "west side" traffic to I-95.

[thelakelander]

Since the I-295 express lane will be in the median, traffic will most likely clog up at the I-95 interchange. All express lane traffic attempting to get to I-95 north or I-95 south will have to get weave through all general service lanes in a relatively short distance. Eventually, we'll have to reconfigure that interchange.

[cline]

I think managed lanes on 95 would be a better place to start.  Southsider mentioned JTB to Atlantic...I think managed lanes on that stretch would be quite a success and would actually serve their purpose.  I know I would pay to use them.

The "I already pay enough in gas taxes" mantra is lame.  It is an archaic system that doesn't come close to providing enough funds. Teaparty BS really. VMT will be the way to go- it is coming.

[edjax]

San Jose is good but it too gets backed up between 295 and Baymeadows and has a few school zones. I hop across the Buckman and take 17 most days. It's not necessarily a time saver, but more of a stress reducer.

Again depending on time and where you live in mandarin you can miss the San Jose traffic from Baymeadows to 295 by taking Beuclerc to Scott Mill. I am off Mandarin Rd and this route saves much time and frustration. 

[coredumped]

The "I already pay enough in gas taxes" mantra is lame.  It is an archaic system that doesn't come close to providing enough funds. Teaparty BS really. VMT will be the way to go- it is coming.

No, it's really not. When you look at how much of your money goes to taxes it's staggering. It would be nice to take home what we earn. I pay almost 2x in taxes than what I earned in college. (yes, I'm fortunate to have a good paying job). But if you're for more taxes and bigger gov. then by all means vote accordingly.

But back on topic...

I think a better use of these funds would be making the "east beltway" (9A portion of 295) 3 lanes. It's 3 lanes on the west side and with the growth on the southside it's long overdue.

[thelakelander]

Whatever you pay now still doesn't add up to the cost of continuing to build new and maintain existing roads. At some point, we'll need to make a decision to either live within our means or increase taxes to afford what we've been doing since WWII.