Mandarin residents see I-295 edge closer to homes; bypassed by benefit

[tufsu1]

The best thing for I-295 would have been another river crossing north of Green Cove Springs. Half of the perceived traffic problems are probably significantly influenced by drivers attempting to cross the river. Considering our growth patterns the last few decades, this means it's either the Buckman or the Fuller Warren. This is one area where the First Coast Expressway could have helped. Unfortunately, some strange type of way, we're going to end up replacing the Shands Bridge instead.

that would be because St. Joe (Rivertown) blocked it

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

and therein lies the problem....there are no plans to widen I-95 into town....and because you have to get from the left side express lane on I-295 to the right side flyover ramp, the merge/weave problem will negate the benefits of the express lane....it is set up for failure! so the kids of the contractors doing the work will have a steady paycheck until their retirement as well.

Fixed.  [thumbup]

from another thread:

...  The genius of their plan is that they can then use their own poorly designed interchanges as a perfect example to explain the need for new highways... 

Creating a need is lesson #1 in sales.  Lesson #2 is profiting from it.

[southsider1015]

and therein lies the problem....there are no plans to widen I-95 into town....and because you have to get from the left side express lane on I-295 to the right side flyover ramp, the merge/weave problem will negate the benefits of the express lane....it is set up for failure! so the kids of the contractors doing the work will have a steady paycheck until their retirement as well.

Fixed.  [thumbup]

from another thread:

...  The genius of their plan is that they can then use their own poorly designed interchanges as a perfect example to explain the need for new highways... 

Creating a need is lesson #1 in sales.  Lesson #2 is profiting from it.

Kids of the contractors?   What?  Whom is this comment directed to?

[southsider1015]

^ I have a better solution.....at some point we need to STOP widening our highways!

I'd love to see the data that supports the demand for 4 toll express lanes on I-295 from SR 13 to I-95....oh wait, that's right.....the demand isn't there....which is why FDOT will start by striping 2 of the lanes out and charging a minimal price (like $0.25).

http://www.northfloridaexpress.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/I-295PERDraftFinal.pdf

You're welcome.
[/quo

you do realize the PER has little to no traffic demand data in it right?

also note that the PER shows only 1 express lane lane per direction...guess you weren't around for the discussion that showed demand only for an extra 2 lanes....and only if they were minimally tolled.

these lanes are bound to fail because they have to end 2 miles before I-95 going eastbound...which of course will set up the argument requiring a left side exit onto 95 so the express lanes can function properly.

FDOT is intent on building these things all over the state

Nope I didn't realize it was missing.  Just assumed it was in there.  I've never understood why FDOT builds additonal lanes and not open them.

[southsider1015]

45 minutes to drive 19 miles this morning, no wrecks either. Just general congestion.  Not the worst in the country I know but the pain on 295 is real.

295 is only a portion of the problem though, (for my route) 95 north was slow from 295 up past University, then again past Emerson all the way into downtown. Are they going to slap 4 extra express lanes onto that route too?

and therein lies the problem....there are no plans to widen I-95 into town....and because you have to get from the left side express lane on I-295 to the right side flyover ramp, the merge/weave problem will negate the benefits of the express lane....it is set up for failure!

A contract was just awarded to begin the PD&E phase for Express lanes on I-95 from JTB to Atlantic Blvd.

There's also other managed lanes segments on I-95 identified in NFTPO's future projects list.

[southsider1015]

45 minutes to drive 19 miles this morning, no wrecks either. Just general congestion.  Not the worst in the country I know but the pain on 295 is real.

295 is only a portion of the problem though, (for my route) 95 north was slow from 295 up past University, then again past Emerson all the way into downtown. Are they going to slap 4 extra express lanes onto that route too?

Yep, they're coming to I-95.  First segment will likely be JTB to Atlantic.

[southsider1015]

The best thing for I-295 would have been another river crossing north of Green Cove Springs. Half of the perceived traffic problems are probably significantly influenced by drivers attempting to cross the river. Considering our growth patterns the last few decades, this means it's either the Buckman or the Fuller Warren. This is one area where the First Coast Expressway could have helped. Unfortunately, some strange type of way, we're going to end up replacing the Shands Bridge instead.

that would be because St. Joe (Rivertown) blocked it

Regardless of FCE, the Shands needs to be replaced anyway.  Too low, and too unsafe.  Palatka can grow it's thriving ports if the bridge is raised, apparently.

River crossing north of GCS?  You mean in Mandarin? Fruit Cove? Julington Creek?  Yeah, right.  How well would that go over?  All the lawyers, doctors, and politicians that live there?  Are you familiar with the ROW acquisition process?  The cost for ROW would be more than the construction costs. 

[Gators312]

I have always been curious why 9B was funded and constructed prior to 9A / 295 being widened to accommodate the amount of traffic already backing up on 9A / 295 particularly between US1 and JTB?   

Why wasn't 9B considered for tolls rather than the additional lanes on 295?

[David]

I have to say, if I keep working downtown for the foreseeable future and stay in Mandarin (which I probably will) they may be able to swindle my pockets to use the express lanes a few days a week.

Well, at least until there's a wreck in the express lane then...game over. Do you get a refund in that case?

[Gators312]

The best thing for I-295 would have been another river crossing north of Green Cove Springs. Half of the perceived traffic problems are probably significantly influenced by drivers attempting to cross the river. Considering our growth patterns the last few decades, this means it's either the Buckman or the Fuller Warren. This is one area where the First Coast Expressway could have helped. Unfortunately, some strange type of way, we're going to end up replacing the Shands Bridge instead.

that would be because St. Joe (Rivertown) blocked it

Regardless of FCE, the Shands needs to be replaced anyway.  Too low, and too unsafe.  Palatka can grow it's thriving ports if the bridge is raised, apparently.

River crossing north of GCS?  You mean in Mandarin? Fruit Cove? Julington Creek?  Yeah, right.  How well would that go over?  All the lawyers, doctors, and politicians that live there?  Are you familiar with the ROW acquisition process?  The cost for ROW would be more than the construction costs.

You do realize there has been discussion of a river crossing North of GCS for over 20 years?  Before Rivertown & the SJ County boom. 

Clay county politicians and well connected land owners have always fought that to ensure development patterns that benefit their holdings along the more southerly route.  Then Rivertown decided to amend their phases of development to ensure ROW cost skyrocketed at the most reasonable path of a river crossing. 

[RattlerGator]

No In My Back Yard -- NIMBY, we all know the concept. It's an important factor because of . . . American taxpayers. Very involved American taxpayers. Who know what they like and prefer, and who don't care to be told what they *should* like and prefer. And they happen to have working in their favor an economic business model that supports their desires (transportation work pumps up the economy; road construction jobs *are* important).

The Clay County vs St. Johns County battle on the bridge question is fairly representative of a MetroJacksonville issue that is certainly equal to an urban core issue. I'm sympathetic to the desire to buttress the urban core but the railing against "things suburban" and the blatant ignoring of the severe difficulties of right-of-way acquisition, etc., while juggling the concurrent taxpayer demand for suburban roadway relief and improvements is disappointing. They aren't ignoramuses at FDOT; it's probably the most professional state agency we have. But . . . politics and stakeholders have to be appreciated.

This metrojacksonville.com website could probably do a much better institutional job of draping some sunshine onto the PD&E process (project development and environmental assessment) for important projects in Northeast Florida:

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/emo/pubs/pdeman/handouts/2014/Public%20Involvement%20in%20-PDE_2014_EMS_June%203%202014.pdf

by standardizing some overlay that's applicable to the important questions and concerns both driving the project and limiting the FDOT projects as well. Please forgive my ignorance if y'all are, in fact, already doing something like this.

[thelakelander]

The best thing for I-295 would have been another river crossing north of Green Cove Springs. Half of the perceived traffic problems are probably significantly influenced by drivers attempting to cross the river. Considering our growth patterns the last few decades, this means it's either the Buckman or the Fuller Warren. This is one area where the First Coast Expressway could have helped. Unfortunately, some strange type of way, we're going to end up replacing the Shands Bridge instead.

that would be because St. Joe (Rivertown) blocked it

Regardless of FCE, the Shands needs to be replaced anyway.  Too low, and too unsafe.  Palatka can grow it's thriving ports if the bridge is raised, apparently.

River crossing north of GCS?  You mean in Mandarin? Fruit Cove? Julington Creek?  Yeah, right.  How well would that go over?  All the lawyers, doctors, and politicians that live there?  Are you familiar with the ROW acquisition process?  The cost for ROW would be more than the construction costs.

You do realize there has been discussion of a river crossing North of GCS for over 20 years?  Before Rivertown & the SJ County boom. 

Clay county politicians and well connected land owners have always fought that to ensure development patterns that benefit their holdings along the more southerly route.  Then Rivertown decided to amend their phases of development to ensure ROW cost skyrocketed at the most reasonable path of a river crossing. 

^Bingo! Anyone who has paid attention to this over the years knows very well how politics played a role in the selected path and funding of the Outer Beltway.

Regardless of FCE, the Shands needs to be replaced anyway.  Too low, and too unsafe.  Palatka can grow it's thriving ports if the bridge is raised, apparently.

Yes, there is a need to maintain our existing infrastructure. However, this does not take away the need for another river crossing.....assuming the goal is to relieve existing congestion and future gridlock that comes as the result of additional low density, autocentric growth.

River crossing north of GCS?  You mean in Mandarin? Fruit Cove? Julington Creek?  Yeah, right.  How well would that go over?  All the lawyers, doctors, and politicians that live there?  Are you familiar with the ROW acquisition process?  The cost for ROW would be more than the construction costs.

More than you know. I'm also pretty familiar with the historical process of how we've reached the point of where we are today and the politics behind it. It's really a completely different conversation and motive than just dealing with the realities of relieving congestion.

[edjax]

I have to say, if I keep working downtown for the foreseeable future and stay in Mandarin (which I probably will) they may be able to swindle my pockets to use the express lanes a few days a week.

Well, at least until there's a wreck in the express lane then...game over. Do you get a refund in that case?

Not sure what part of Mandarin you live in but based upon my experience the better route to downtown for rush hour if you leave fairly early is San Jose.  Alot depends on the times though.

[thelakelander]

^Yes. Depending on the time of the day, I use either Philips or San Jose as alternatives to bypass the spots where the interstates back up.

With that said, I'm all for tolling. Roads are the biggest loser of money when it comes to construction cost and ongoing maintenance. Why more than something like the Skyway would ever run taxpayers. To recoup some of those costs, user fees......just like paying a fare for the bus, makes sense.

[David]

San Jose is good but it too gets backed up between 295 and Baymeadows and has a few school zones. I hop across the Buckman and take 17 most days. It's not necessarily a time saver, but more of a stress reducer.