Jax Landing to be renovated

[edjax]

And back in topic.  At this point all we know really is new lighting and fresh paint!!!  Woohoo!!!!  Maybe even Fuddruckers this time around!!!!  Come on.  We can all dream!!

[Jax96]

Also, that last bit of Hogan Street should be pulled up and turned into a green space, seamlessly linking the landing and theater.

[thelakelander]

+1000

[PeeJayEss]

Not to mention the poster only suggested it for weekends only.

^This. And only at night. Not sure how people mistook it as "close down the whole shebang permanently". The examples I listed does just that (weekends only).

Maybe I should have been clearer.

Everyday or just some days, I still disagree. The Landing already has plenty of underutilized pedestrian space. I don't see how adding more will help, it will reduce access to the buildings along the street, and it will force traffic further outside this core area of downtown. Plus, people on this board complain when they have to park more than a couple blocks to a destination (and these are the urban advocates of the city), so imagine how eliminating parking on Laura and in front of the Landing would go over.

Also, that last bit of Hogan Street should be pulled up and turned into a green space, seamlessly linking the landing and theater.

This, however, is spot on. I'd say not even just green space, if you can squeeze some parcels in there for new construction that would really be big.

[Jason]

Also, that last bit of Hogan Street should be pulled up and turned into a green space, seamlessly linking the landing and theater.

And the greatest part is that there is already a plan to do just that.  It's probably buried somewhere getting eaten by roaches though....

[Jason]

Interesting links:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-nov-urban-planning-the-riverwalks

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-jun-five-projects-changing-the-urban-landscape

[Wacca Pilatka]

Before they all are condemned as unwanted, how is Baltimore or Norfolk VA doing? What about the others?  I suspect it is more about what is going on around them than what they are.

Baltimore still does quite well, and I understand Faneuil Hall in Boston does too.  (And Horton Plaza in San Diego, which is really a mall and not a festival market, though it's a very unconventional-looking open-air mall.)  All of them probably do well more so because they are in the middle of a lot of activity and not because people are going downtown to go shopping.  E.g., people go to Harborplace because they are in downtown Baltimore for an Orioles game or to go to National Aquarium, not the other way around.

Norfolk's downtown is more successful than ever, but its Waterside marketplace has struggled the last few years.  Other parts of downtown drew business away, and fights and other illicit activities led to the closure of a couple of the largest restaurants/bars.  Still, there's so much positive interest in downtown Norfolk that I expect it'll be retooled and revamped before long.  It does still have a couple of name tenants such as Outback and Joe's Crab Shack.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Before they all are condemned as unwanted, how is Baltimore or Norfolk VA doing? What about the others?  I suspect it is more about what is going on around them than what they are.

Here's a list of festival marketplaces built by Rouse. Most are still operating:

Underground Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia
Harborplace, Baltimore, Maryland
Faneuil Hall, Boston, Massachusetts
Navy Pier, Chicago, Illinois
Aloha Tower Marketplace, Honolulu, Hawaii
Jacksonville Landing, Jacksonville, Florida
The Grove at Farmers Market, Los Angeles, California
Hollywood and Highland, Los Angeles, California
Bayside Marketplace, Miami, Florida
Jackson Brewery, New Orleans, Louisiana
Riverwalk, New Orleans, Louisiana
South Street Seaport, New York City
Waterside, Norfolk, Virginia
Jack London Square, Oakland, California
Arizona Center, Phoenix, Arizona
Station Square, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Westfield Horton Plaza, San Diego, California
Ghirardelli Square, San Francisco, California
Pier 39, San Francisco, California
St. Louis Union Station, St. Louis, Missouri
Union Station (Washington, D.C.), Washington, D.C.
Tower City Center. Cleveland, Ohio
Water Street Pavilion, Flint, Michigan
Union Station, Indianapolis, Indiana
Portside, Toledo, Ohio
Erie Street Market, Toledo, OH
Sixth Street Festival Marketplace, Richmond, Virginia
Festival Market, Lexington, Kentucky-(Opened in 1986, closed in the early 1990s.)
Saint Anthony Main, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Bandana Square, Saint Paul, Minnesota
West End Marketplace, Dallas, Texas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival_marketplace

Off the top of my head -

In addition to South St. Seaport, the Toledo ones failed (one was converted to a science center, which also closed) and I am pretty sure the Flint one is also dead. 

Sixth St. Marketplace was one of the saddest tales.  It was designed as a sort of hybrid between a conventional mall and a festival marketplace.  It connected Richmond's two remaining downtown department stores, Thalhimers and Miller & Rhoads, and also symbolically bridged Broad Street, which historically represented a racial dividing line in Richmond.  But it never really took off, because it was trying to be a mall but with smaller retail spaces, and it was difficult to figure out how to access it.  Then when out-of-town chains bought the Thalhimers and Miller & Rhoads chains and immediately closed those stores, that was the immediate death knell.  Somehow it limped on for another dozen years or so with a Foot Locker, a Radio Shack, a few food court tenants, and acres of empty space in between.  It was torn down around 2002 or 2003.

[CityLife]

I've been to Navy Pier, Ghiradelli Square, Pier 39, Underground Atlanta, Bayside, and Aloha Tower Marketplace recently...I've also purposely not been to several on the list Lakelander posted.  Most of these places are novelty spots where visitors go and are quickly dissapointed. Many of them are tourist traps and an absolute waste of time. The Landing has some decent restaurants and events, but by and large it is underutilzed.

The list of other similar centers did give me an interesting idea to activate The Landing. Riverwalk in New Orleans is being repurposed into an Outlet Center and is claiming to be the first downtown outlet center. I know outlet centers have a stigma, but there are actually quite a few good stores at the St. Augustine Outlets like J Crew, Banana Republic, Brooks Brothers, Nike, Adidas, Coach..and then more high end stuff on the other side. Outlet stores could be a brilliant way to activate the dying indoor festival marketplace. You want to get people off 95 to visit downtown? Or have people stop in Jax for a night on their way down? Give them some shopping to go along with the food, culture, and entertainment.

Now I don't know if outlet stores like being so close to each other, but its an idea that is at least worth exploring.

[jcjohnpaint]

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/09/20/rummell-landing-is-most-important-to.html

An overhaul of the Jacksonville Landing could be the most important project to Downtown revitalization, one of the urban core's most powerful advocates said Friday.
"Every bone in my body tells me, from an overall point of view, if we were to spend money anywhere, spend it there," said Peter Rummell, the Jacksonville-based director of worldwide operations for the Urban Land Institute. "This is our front door, so I'd start there before I'd worry about five blocks in."
Jacksonville Landing owner Toney Sleiman told the Business Journal earlier this week that he is working on a renovation of the Landing, but wasn't yet ready to disclose any details beyond that it would include repainting and new lighting.
Rummell said he would "absolutely" prioritize the Landing over any other project, including the Laura Street Trio redevelopment.
"If there are two things that could signal a change in Downtown, it would be doing something significant with the Landing, and Hemming Plaza would be the other," he said.
Rummell recalled a hypothetical anecdote someone once told him, that if 10 random people at Jacksonville International Airport asked separate cabs to take them Downtown, seven out of 10 would likely go to the Landing, and the other three would be taken to Hemming Plaza.
"That's a scary thought that those two things would be seen as symbolic of Downtown," he said, "but I think it's sad but true."
The Landing, Rummell said, could become "a better version" of itself.
"I don't think you put a Nordstrom there," he said, "but I think it can be an activity node, for food and beverage, specialty retail."


Is this a joke? 
A little paint and a few bulbs is more important than the trio? 
Give the landing it's parking and call it a day!

[Cheshire Cat]

(Off topic for one minute)  JCPaint.  I know I sometimes miss the obvious but I just noticed your site address under your name on the forum.  Love the artwork!     That is all. 

Now back to the Landing....

[thelakelander]

Is this a joke? 
A little paint and a few bulbs is more important than the trio? 
Give the landing it's parking and call it a day!

To be honest, Rummell is right.  The revitalization of the Landing is one of the most important items that can be done within a short time period.  I'd dare to say, it would have more of an immediate positive impact than the Laura Trio (although that's a great need as well), the Shipyards and growing downtown's residential population base. 

Regardless of what people think about the Landing and its owner, it is a major downtown landmark and one that attracts the most visitors to the area.  It's image basically goes hand in hand with the overall image of downtown Jacksonville to the outside world.  A revamped Landing is something that would make projects like the Laura Trio more feasible, increasing their chances of success in the process.

[vicupstate]

Is this a joke? 
A little paint and a few bulbs is more important than the trio? 
Give the landing it's parking and call it a day!

To be honest, Rummell is right.  The revitalization of the Landing is one of the most important items that can be done within a short time period.  I'd dare to say, it would have more of an immediate positive impact than the Laura Trio (although that's a great need as well), the Shipyards and growing downtown's residential population base. 

Regardless of what people think about the Landing and its owner, it is a major downtown landmark and one that attracts the most visitors to the area.  It's image basically goes hand in hand with the overall image of downtown Jacksonville to the outside world.  A revamped Landing is something that would make projects like the Laura Trio more feasible, increasing their chances of success in the process.

I agree, but at the same time, if something doesn't happen THIS time with the Trio, I think one or more of the buildings could be lost to the elements.  Plus, it would make it that much more difficult to EVER do anything with the Trio later.

I hope it doesn't come down to an either or situation between the Trio and the Landing.

[coredumped]

The landing is VERY important. I don't know that it's more important than the trio, but it's more of the "face of jacksonville" than the trio (or even hemming plaza for the past 20 years). When ESPN comes to down, they're at the landing, politicians all go to the landing.
And of course, it's also included in our skyline photos.

That being said, I wish the trio was on it's way, but lets not discount the landing and how many people it brings downtown every week.

[Wacca Pilatka]

The list of other similar centers did give me an interesting idea to activate The Landing. Riverwalk in New Orleans is being repurposed into an Outlet Center and is claiming to be the first downtown outlet center. I know outlet centers have a stigma, but there are actually quite a few good stores at the St. Augustine Outlets like J Crew, Banana Republic, Brooks Brothers, Nike, Adidas, Coach..and then more high end stuff on the other side. Outlet stores could be a brilliant way to activate the dying indoor festival marketplace. You want to get people off 95 to visit downtown? Or have people stop in Jax for a night on their way down? Give them some shopping to go along with the food, culture, and entertainment.

Now I don't know if outlet stores like being so close to each other, but its an idea that is at least worth exploring.

Intriguing but I don't think it would work.  I have a hard time imagining that a Landing outlet (even with the bars and food and entertainment) could compete with St. Augustine's monster outlet center.

Just as festival markets have faded from their 80s heyday, so have outlet malls.  In the last couple of decades the small outlet center in Brunswick died, and there's virtually nothing left of the big one in Darien that was introduced with great fanfare in the mid-90s.  Several other 80s/90s outlet malls along I-95 in Virginia and the Carolinas have died or are a shell of themselves (Santee, Fredericksburg, Lumberton).  Seems that the ones that thrive are supermalls and/or near cities that are already big for tourism.

Richmond had a downtown outlet mall in the 80s, in the old Main Street train station, and it flopped quickly and utterly - the building is now back to serving as an Amtrak station.