Jax Landing to be renovated

[Wacca Pilatka]

Plus, the mini mall concept is dead as a doornail.

What if said mini mall sold living rooms, bedrooms, and dinettes?

[PeeJayEss]

I'd even go so far as to make this part of a plan to close off vehicular traffic on Laura on weekends & connect that whole sum bitch up right.

I was with you until this. Ped streets are tooo gimicky. It says we can't figure out complete streets, so we just eliminate driving and parking. They've already made that street anti-bike.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'd even go so far as to make this part of a plan to close off vehicular traffic on Laura on weekends & connect that whole sum bitch up right.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?  Start this bad boy up around Forsythe.....

http://www.youtube.com/v/3wAjpMP5eyo?

Right into the Friendship Fountiain, FTW!

[peestandingup]

I'd even go so far as to make this part of a plan to close off vehicular traffic on Laura on weekends & connect that whole sum bitch up right.

I was with you until this. Ped streets are tooo gimicky. It says we can't figure out complete streets, so we just eliminate driving and parking. They've already made that street anti-bike.

I dont think they're gimmicky at all. They provide a human element that's become lost in our automotive centric world. Plus, it would further un-segregate an area that needs a boost & returned to glory, which is the heart of your city. Right now downtown is poison to cyclists & pedestrians, which for a downtown, should be the opposite. When a suburban mall like Town Center has you beat as far as these things go, you know you've got problems.

Besides, a lot of downtowns do this on a weekly basis. Hell, my old stomping grounds of Louisville (Fourth Street Live) & Lexington (Short Street/Cheapside district) both do this on weekends, and its very successful. And that's in Kentucky. Kentucky! We can't do better than that??

[thelakelander]

Doesn't the Landing already essentially have a pedestrian street?  It runs parallel to the river and separates the riverfront restaurants from the retail shops.

[tufsu1]

^ yes...although the ones at Bayside in Miami are much more functional

[peestandingup]

Doesn't the Landing already essentially have a pedestrian street?  It runs parallel to the river and separates the riverfront restaurants from the retail shops.

It does, but there's nothing else of real importance around it though.

[johnny_simpatico]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/nyregion/grief-and-bargains-as-south-street-seaport-shopping-center-closes.html?_r=0

These "festival marketplaces" have in most places become unwanted.  Time to raze the Landing and build something relevant.

[strider]

Before they all are condemned as unwanted, how is Baltimore or Norfolk VA doing? What about the others?  I suspect it is more about what is going on around them than what they are.

[peestandingup]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/nyregion/grief-and-bargains-as-south-street-seaport-shopping-center-closes.html?_r=0

These "festival marketplaces" have in most places become unwanted.  Time to raze the Landing and build something relevant.

That's because they're past their prime, as is a lot of traditional retail. Going downtown to pay inflated markup for what's basically a dime a dozen stores isn't something that's on most people's radar these days.

And you dont have to raze the place, just cut the fat (middle part) & turn it into something that works for the times. An entertainment district, coupled with Laura & Bay streets, would fit that bill.

[I-10east]

Okay even hypothetically with this supposed 'heavenly corridor' on Laura Street, with the Landing (of course complete with a hole through the middle, so that all the masses truly know that the St John's River is there); There will definitely be permanent 'hiatuses' of skyscraper curtain wall (not the desired retail) with some the city's tallest on Laura St (BOA, Wells Fargo, Jacksonville Center) and other areas like Regions Bank; Not exactly an uninterrupted lively promenade of shopping. Even with this 'desired Landing with a hole' any urban decline, or extreme complacency overtime will simply result in an under-utilized Landing (like now) with a hole looking out at the river.  I totally disagree the idea of closing Laura auto traffic off for pedestrian foot traffic; That would be an extreme logistical nightmare, and totally disrupt and ruin the traffic grid.

I disagree with the 'reverse vampire theory' being that the indoors is bad; Thriving places like the Avenues, and Orange Park Mall proves otherwise. Sure enough, a niche surely would rather be in 'the Florida sun' with tons of sunlight, but there's that many more people like me who can care less one way or the other. Those inner stores became 'Mom & Pop City' because of parking issues, urban decline, and the economy not because of lack of sun. Besides there's plenty of sunny areas around the Landing (second floor outside the food court, courtyard etc) Don't get me wrong, the Landing can use a touch-up, but nothing extreme like the 'Red Sea hole'.

[thelakelander]

Before they all are condemned as unwanted, how is Baltimore or Norfolk VA doing? What about the others?  I suspect it is more about what is going on around them than what they are.

Here's a list of festival marketplaces built by Rouse. Most are still operating:

Underground Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia
Harborplace, Baltimore, Maryland
Faneuil Hall, Boston, Massachusetts
Navy Pier, Chicago, Illinois
Aloha Tower Marketplace, Honolulu, Hawaii
Jacksonville Landing, Jacksonville, Florida
The Grove at Farmers Market, Los Angeles, California
Hollywood and Highland, Los Angeles, California
Bayside Marketplace, Miami, Florida
Jackson Brewery, New Orleans, Louisiana
Riverwalk, New Orleans, Louisiana
South Street Seaport, New York City
Waterside, Norfolk, Virginia
Jack London Square, Oakland, California
Arizona Center, Phoenix, Arizona
Station Square, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Westfield Horton Plaza, San Diego, California
Ghirardelli Square, San Francisco, California
Pier 39, San Francisco, California
St. Louis Union Station, St. Louis, Missouri
Union Station (Washington, D.C.), Washington, D.C.
Tower City Center. Cleveland, Ohio
Water Street Pavilion, Flint, Michigan
Union Station, Indianapolis, Indiana
Portside, Toledo, Ohio
Erie Street Market, Toledo, OH
Sixth Street Festival Marketplace, Richmond, Virginia
Festival Market, Lexington, Kentucky-(Opened in 1986, closed in the early 1990s.)
Saint Anthony Main, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Bandana Square, Saint Paul, Minnesota
West End Marketplace, Dallas, Texas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival_marketplace

[thelakelander]

Okay even hypothetically with this supposed 'heavenly corridor' on Laura Street, with the Landing (of course complete with a hole through the middle, so that all the masses truly know that the St John's River is there); There will definitely be permanent 'hiatuses' of skyscraper curtain wall (not the desired retail) with some the city's tallest on Laura St (BOA, Wells Fargo, Jacksonville Center) and other areas like Regions Bank; Not exactly an uninterrupted lively promenade of shopping.

Don't know when the last time you've been downtown but most of the places you just named already have street level retail spaces in their lobbies.  No one said anything about a "promenade of shopping" and I don't believe anyone thinks we'll have a Miracle Mile down there. Nevertheless, that corridor (and others) can easily have a couple of continuous blocks of occupied storefronts featuring everything from dining and specialty retail to dry cleaners and banks. 

Even with this 'desired Landing with a hole' any urban decline, or extreme complacency overtime will simply result in an under-utilized Landing (like now) with a hole looking out at the river.  I totally disagree the idea of closing Laura auto traffic off for pedestrian foot traffic; That would be an extreme logistical nightmare, and totally disrupt and ruin the traffic grid.

I don't agree with closing off Laura to cars either. Businesses need visibility to survive. Limiting that, limits their ultimate success.

I disagree with the 'reverse vampire theory' being that the indoors is bad; Thriving places like the Avenues, and Orange Park Mall proves otherwise. Sure enough, a niche surely would rather be in 'the Florida sun' with tons of sunlight, but there's that much more people like me who can care less one way or the other. Those inner stores became 'Mom & Pop City' because of urban decline and the economy not because of lack of sun. Don't get me wrong, the Landing can use a touch-up, but nothing extreme like the 'Red Sea hole'.

Integration with your surroundings in an urban environment should be desirable, regardless of it you have an indoor, outdoor center or a mix of both.

[thelakelander]

And you dont have to raze the place, just cut the fat (middle part) & turn it into something that works for the times. An entertainment district, coupled with Laura & Bay streets, would fit that bill.

Yes, I find it pretty funny when people talk about putting something like the Landing on the Shipyards site.  It's much easier, quicker, and cheaper to find a way to make an existing structure like the Landing work than blowing it up and starting over by building something similar on a site nearby.

[I-10east]

^^^Too be fair, I believe that you brought this up one time; Most don't know about that retail within those office buildings.