Rape the will of God?

[If_I_Loved_you]

Not knowing your age when you were a child did you believe in God?

I don't understand the question. Can you clarify?

Who screwed you up in believing there is no God? Not knowing your age when you were a child did you believe in God? I'm in peace knowing that God is with me each and everyday. 

[Adam W]

I don't know what this sentence means:

"Not knowing your age when you were a child did you believe in God?"

Can you rephrase that? If not, no biggie. But if not, I won't answer it.

[If_I_Loved_you]

I don't know what this sentence means:

"Not knowing your age when you were a child did you believe in God?"

Can you rephrase that? If not, no biggie. But if not, I won't answer it.

Not knowing your Age "How old are you?" When you were a child did you believe in God?

“For those who may not find happiness to exercise religious faith, it's okay to remain a radical atheist, it's absolutely an individual right, but the important thing is with a compassionate heart -- then no problem.”
Dalai Lama quotes

[Adam W]

I don't know what this sentence means:

"Not knowing your age when you were a child did you believe in God?"

Can you rephrase that? If not, no biggie. But if not, I won't answer it.

Not knowing your Age "How old are you?" When you were a child did you believe in God?

“For those who may not find happiness to exercise religious faith, it's okay to remain a radical atheist, it's absolutely an individual right, but the important thing is with a compassionate heart -- then no problem.”
Dalai Lama quotes

I still don't quite follow the first bit. But....

I stopped believing in god when I was around 7 or 8. That's at least when I seriously started having doubts. I guess when you're a kid, you believe anything your parents (or other people) tell you. As you get older, you start thinking for yourself and forming your own opinions. At least, you're supposed to. Sometimes your opinions mirror those of your parents. Sometimes they don't.

Now, back to my original post. Nowhere did I say there was no god - even though I don't believe in god. There may well be a god, even though I'm pretty comfortable saying there probably isn't. But even if there is a god, I'm 100% certain that religion is complete and utter bullshit.

[ben says]

^ +10000000000000

[ChriswUfGator]

No, we call that foreign policy.

[Adam W]

bullshit in what context?

I think I understand you to mean that religion as a divinely inspired set of rituals and ceremonial chants provided by the Creator or one of the creators divinely natured offsprings, representatives etc for the purpose of pleasing the god(s) is bullshit?

Is that accurate?

Not that you disagree with what most people call the universal truths....not murdering other people, not stealing from them, not breaking covenants, telling the truth, not raping etc....

You don't think that stuff is bullshit, I would presume?

Am I wrong?

Yes, Stephen, that's what I mean. The idea that the second batch of "universal truths" were handed down to us by some sort of divine being or revealed through sets of fancy books with other rules that we have to follow.

Most of the second stuff just amount to laws. And laws are man-made. We don't need gods to tell us what to do. There may be a god or gods. But I guarantee (okay, I have no way to actually "guarantee" anything) that the bible, koran, torah, bhagavad gita, etc etc etc are just made up by a bunch of dudes somewhere, someplace in time and have no real functional relationship to the actual god or gods if such beings actually exist.

So religions as we know them are made up by men to control men and to explain things they don't understand, most notably, what happens to you when you die.

[ben says]

No, we call that foreign policy.

Classic!!

[Adam W]

Well I think I would agree with you that Religion causes pleasure for the creator (or some representation therein) in much the same way that laws cause Justice.

But I dont think that I would characterize the idea of Law as 'bullshit' simply because one of the arbitrary systems of laws do not cause Justice.

I wonder if you would agree with me, that however badly an imperfectly structured legal system might cause "Justice", the idea of The rule of Law is and has been a very good thing for our species?  Separate from its function of causing 'Justice'.

Would you also agree with me that no matter how badly religion serves the aims of the Divine, it does preserve a reliable codification of culture that makes it possible for people and cultures to survive through catastrophes?

Stephen, I'm not saying law is bullshit at all.

I'm saying religion is bullshit. Laws can (and should) exist outside of religion.

[Adam W]

And no, I don't think religion serves humans well at all. I think it holds them back. I think it causes them to rely on superstition and fear to interpret the world around them instead of using logic and knowledge.

I think it reinforces hatred, sexism, bigotry and a whole host of other "isms" that cause division. It's best left behind and has no place in the modern world.

Language is the best tool for codifying culture.

[Adam W]

And no, I don't think religion serves humans well at all. I think it holds them back. I think it causes them to rely on superstition and fear to interpret the world around them instead of using logic and knowledge.

I think it reinforces hatred, sexism, bigotry and a whole host of other "isms" that cause division. It's best left behind and has no place in the modern world.

would you say this about buddhism?

It depends, but yes in most cases - especially in Tibet (and especially the second part of the statement above).

[Adam W]

Which is ironic, considering Buddhism is essentially an atheist religion.

[Adam W]

Language is the best tool for codifying culture.

ah linguistics.  But where would our rich mythology and metaphor come from?  Linguistics alone doesnt provide a framework for the genesis of art or romance.

And who knows what interstellar civilization survives only in the Vedas?

I have no idea what you're on about, Stephen. Religion doesn't provide a framework for the genesis of art or romance. People create stuff. They can do that with or without religion.

As far as that stuff about the Vedas is concerned, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

[ben says]

Language is the best tool for codifying culture.

ah linguistics.  But where would our rich mythology and metaphor come from?  Linguistics alone doesnt provide a framework for the genesis of art or romance.

And who knows what interstellar civilization survives only in the Vedas?

I have no idea what you're on about, Stephen. Religion doesn't provide a framework for the genesis of art or romance. People create stuff. They can do that with or without religion.

Well provide an example of an athiest culture that arose from logic somewhere in the pantheon of human societies.

Im sure there must be one if what you say is true.

Not sure I get what your point is.....

[Adam W]

Which is ironic, considering Buddhism is essentially an atheist religion.

Buddhism is by no stretch an athiest religion.  But it does have a different definition of the Divine.

But when it comes to the irrational, buddhism has pretty much outdone all other religious systems.  The belief in the afterlife is about as irrational as it gets, and most of the desert religions are pretty unimaginative.  One afterlife, divided between paradise and hell.

Buddhism provides for infinite afterlifes and a potential for group consciousness and merging with the whole in infinite cycles.

Its about as irrational and unempirical as it gets.

But I havent really noticed it falling into your neat little categories of criticism.

Which is important I think, since the majority of our species is actually buddhist of some derivation.

There may indeed be plenty of buddhists in the world. But that doesn't mean that they're above reproach. Same deal with hindus. One need only look at the violence perpetrated by hindus against muslims in India and review the caste system (and its pre-Raj roots) to see that religion has done India no favors.

And as for Tibet? Well, this is an interesting view:

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html