Rape the will of God?

[Adam W]

Its just a question.  Which athiest culture(s) or society(its) has (have) arisen from logic in the history of our species?

What artifacts did they leave behind?  What are some examples of its poetry, metaphor, art?

Stephen, my point was that religion has no place in the modern world. Or have you forgotten that?

[Adam W]

Its just a question.  Which athiest culture(s) or society(its) has (have) arisen from logic in the history of our species?

What artifacts did they leave behind?  What are some examples of its poetry, metaphor, art?

Stephen, my point was that religion has no place in the modern world. Or have you forgotten that?

Is this an admission that you don't know of a single example of an athiest culture or logic based human society in the whole of our history as a species?

Well, Stephen, I'm saying I don't really see your point. I don't know of any exclusively atheist societies, no. Apparently there were atheist Indians at one point:

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/carvakas.asp

And certainly atheists have existed throughout history. No society has been 100% theistic. Or are you contending that all art, knowledge, music, etc has been created by theists? Because if you aren't, then surely you must concede that atheists are capable of creating and transmitting culture.

My point is that human beings have the ability to create and transmit culture. Religion is part of culture. It can be a vehicle for the transmission of culture, sure, but it is not necessary.

I would never argue that religion has never done anything good, either. My point is simply that has outlived its purpose and we should put it out to pasture.

Situations like this "rape gift" thing result when religion and the modern world collide.

[Adam W]

Well you said that cultures could produce what we call the 'humanities' from basically a linguistics viewpoint---completely independent of religious or irrational belief.

And yet there are no examples that you can name of a culture that has ever done this.

What do you base this opinion on?  Belief?

I never said that Stephen. You're now completely misquoting me. I said the following:

*Language is the best tool for codifying culture.

*Religion doesn't provide a framework for the genesis of art or romance. People create stuff. They can do that with or without religion.

[Adam W]

*Religion doesn't provide a framework for the genesis of art or romance. People create stuff. They can do that with or without religion.

Ok, back to the question.  Which society -----free of religion--- has done that?

Stephen, I've answered the question. Go back and read again.

You're reducing all culture to religion - you're essentially saying that all culture a society produces is 100% reliant on religion. Religion MUST be present for culture to exist.

That argument is flawed. And atheists have been shown throughout history to create great works of art, literature, etc.

And, as I said, it's irrelevant anyway. Because I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about the present - but you keep refusing to acknowledge that. I have said religion has no place in the modern world. We've outgrown it.

So I fail to see why you need to keep talking about the past. You're sticking with this straw man argument and I really don't see the point.

It's cool that you don't agree with me about the usefulness of religion in the 21st century. That's fine. I'd rather we debate that, if we're actually going to debate anything about this.

[Adam W]

And I ask this because I think that all culture and most of the humanites are based on the irrational.  Without the ability to project beyond the possible or orthodox, we cannot evolve culturally.

And I would suggest to you that the repository of the irrational has been religion.

Its dangerous to dismiss it.

Although I agree that religion is irrational, I don't agree that it is "the repository of the irrational" because that sounds like a sweeping statement that doesn't actually mean anything.

I've got nothing against the irrational, when it comes to things like the humanities.

[Adam W]

Hmm.  I think if you review the discussion you will see that the only one who has spoken in absolutes is yourself. 

Aside from that absolute, how about this:

"[A]ll culture and most of the humanites are based on the irrational.  Without the ability to project beyond the possible or orthodox, we cannot evolve culturally."

And regarding Buddhism, "Its about as irrational and unempirical as it gets."

Those are just two examples from this page of the thread. I wasn't going to bother, but since you tried to call me out for being the only one speaking in absolutes, I couldn't resist.

Anyway, I'm going to try to watch a bit of this FL-GA game before I turn in for the night. I might try to check back in, if I can't help myself 

[buckethead]

So how 'bout that asshat who said rape was a gift from god?

Crazy, huh?