Mellow Mushroom: Working with the Avondale community

[Pinky]

It's that obvious.

Sure it is, from the outside looking in.

So if they withdraw the PUD they aren't going to get slammed with the parking requirements of Jim Love's new legislation?  That's sure what it looks like from the outside.  Also, to address Pinky's point that Valentino doesn't give a 'flying f': why would he go to the trouble of making the first design if he didn't care about the product he was bringing to the neighborhood?


Mtrain-  Your tone has really changed in the last few days.  Are you now siding with team WLA in order to get a surface lot thrown down on the most important piece of land in Avondale's commercial portfolio?

Not me boss.  I've never said Valentino didn't give a "flying F".  I said he was anything but "abysmally stupid" earlier in the thread, but that's all I've posted recently.  I think you have me confused with someone else.

[Pinky]

Mellow Mushroom is being led down the primrose path. It's obvious that a vocal minority just doesn't want the restaurant there, period, and that the only way they'll ever agree on a set of conditions is if they include enough arbitrary restrictions to guarantee that the restaurant won't succeed. Though I'm sure the two gentlemen behind WeLoveAvondale, LLC must think they're very clever, this is not particularly sophisticated. I'm actually beginning to think that if the ownership of Mellow is this abysmally stupid, as appears the case since they keep agreeing to each new set of moving targets, then they deserve what they've obviously got coming to them.

I know Valentino.  He's a lot of things; reasonable, cooperative, well-intentioned, innovative and passionate among them. "Abyssmally stupid" is not a term I would ever use to describe him, and those who make that assumption do so at their own peril. 

I call it like I see it.

Being reasonable and cooperative is a disaster when the other side isn't interested in meaningful dialogue or an honest compromise. Your buddy may be good at running a restaurant, but he appears to fundamentally misunderstand what he's dealing with here.

Or it could be he just wants in the market because he knows it is a good location.  Maybe he really doesn't give a flying F what the place looks like as long as it is profitable.  At some point you just say "Hey I tried to make it unique but if this is what it takes to be there, so be it.  Why do I care if they want a box and paved parking lot?"

T'was JHAT76. 

But to speak to that point; I believe he does in fact give a Flying F about not reusing the old service station.  It was a big part of the original vision for that location, and an important element in the decorative theme he was considering.  (All Mellow Mushroom restaurants are unique and individual in their decor.) The antique Service Station/"automobilia" theme would have been carried throughout the location.  Don't get me wrong; there will still be a bunch of very cool decorative elements in the new design, but without the old gas station to build around it'll be somewhat diminished.

It reminds me of the 15 years I spent in the Corporate World, before striking out on my own to build Cool Shit.  15 years of shoveling against tides taught me an important lesson:

Inspiration Dies In Committee. 

Sad but true, and this is a perfect example of it.

[Timkin]

I hope MM can do what they set out to do to start with and that this does not finally make them give up and build elsewhere.

[Pinky]

Just stick with the original design and the original approval and start building.

Amen.  Personally I'd like to see him slap WLA, RAP and Jim Love with Tortious Interference of Business lawsuits too.  This is obscene, given that as I understand it, his original plan was absolutely and unequivocally within the law.  But that's not Valentino's style; he's a much more cooperative guy.  Me; I'd start throwing paper around and see who wants to go to the mat. 

[KEGreene1]

Couple of questions I would like answered.

1. Who behind and supporting “We Love Avondale,LLC” ? (How involved are area restaurants that are afraid of competition???)
2. What is RAP not doing that WLA felt it important enough to form?
3. WLA seems to be creating road blocks and using stall tactics.  What are they stalling for?
4. Why did our City Councilman feel it okay to try to force legislation through the Planning dept.?  Who is pulling the strings?

[JHAT76]

Mellow Mushroom is being led down the primrose path. It's obvious that a vocal minority just doesn't want the restaurant there, period, and that the only way they'll ever agree on a set of conditions is if they include enough arbitrary restrictions to guarantee that the restaurant won't succeed. Though I'm sure the two gentlemen behind WeLoveAvondale, LLC must think they're very clever, this is not particularly sophisticated. I'm actually beginning to think that if the ownership of Mellow is this abysmally stupid, as appears the case since they keep agreeing to each new set of moving targets, then they deserve what they've obviously got coming to them.

I know Valentino.  He's a lot of things; reasonable, cooperative, well-intentioned, innovative and passionate among them. "Abyssmally stupid" is not a term I would ever use to describe him, and those who make that assumption do so at their own peril. 

I call it like I see it.

Being reasonable and cooperative is a disaster when the other side isn't interested in meaningful dialogue or an honest compromise. Your buddy may be good at running a restaurant, but he appears to fundamentally misunderstand what he's dealing with here.

Or it could be he just wants in the market because he knows it is a good location.  Maybe he really doesn't give a flying F what the place looks like as long as it is profitable.  At some point you just say "Hey I tried to make it unique but if this is what it takes to be there, so be it.  Why do I care if they want a box and paved parking lot?"

T'was JHAT76. 

But to speak to that point; I believe he does in fact give a Flying F about not reusing the old service station.  It was a big part of the original vision for that location, and an important element in the decorative theme he was considering.  (All Mellow Mushroom restaurants are unique and individual in their decor.) The antique Service Station/"automobilia" theme would have been carried throughout the location.  Don't get me wrong; there will still be a bunch of very cool decorative elements in the new design, but without the old gas station to build around it'll be somewhat diminished.

It reminds me of the 15 years I spent in the Corporate World, before striking out on my own to build Cool Shit.  15 years of shoveling against tides taught me an important lesson:

Inspiration Dies In Committee. 

Sad but true, and this is a perfect example of it.

It was definitely me.  What I was trying to say, which I didn't do a good job of, was that at this point I could understand going along with WLA and RAP and saying "Fine, here is your box restaurant.  Just let me open."  I do believe MM came with a great idea.  One that was unique and would have added some excitement and freshness to the Shoppes.  I commend MM for coming with that idea.  When I hear my 13 yr old say I don't want to live in Jax when I grow up, these are the situations that make me think no wonder she doesn't.  Young people want to see a vibrant, changing city.  It's what keeps people coming back after college, what attracts corporations, and grows a city.

[wsansewjs]

Mellow Mushroom is being led down the primrose path. It's obvious that a vocal minority just doesn't want the restaurant there, period, and that the only way they'll ever agree on a set of conditions is if they include enough arbitrary restrictions to guarantee that the restaurant won't succeed. Though I'm sure the two gentlemen behind WeLoveAvondale, LLC must think they're very clever, this is not particularly sophisticated. I'm actually beginning to think that if the ownership of Mellow is this abysmally stupid, as appears the case since they keep agreeing to each new set of moving targets, then they deserve what they've obviously got coming to them.

I know Valentino.  He's a lot of things; reasonable, cooperative, well-intentioned, innovative and passionate among them. "Abyssmally stupid" is not a term I would ever use to describe him, and those who make that assumption do so at their own peril. 

I call it like I see it.

Being reasonable and cooperative is a disaster when the other side isn't interested in meaningful dialogue or an honest compromise. Your buddy may be good at running a restaurant, but he appears to fundamentally misunderstand what he's dealing with here.

Or it could be he just wants in the market because he knows it is a good location.  Maybe he really doesn't give a flying F what the place looks like as long as it is profitable.  At some point you just say "Hey I tried to make it unique but if this is what it takes to be there, so be it.  Why do I care if they want a box and paved parking lot?"

T'was JHAT76. 

But to speak to that point; I believe he does in fact give a Flying F about not reusing the old service station.  It was a big part of the original vision for that location, and an important element in the decorative theme he was considering.  (All Mellow Mushroom restaurants are unique and individual in their decor.) The antique Service Station/"automobilia" theme would have been carried throughout the location.  Don't get me wrong; there will still be a bunch of very cool decorative elements in the new design, but without the old gas station to build around it'll be somewhat diminished.

It reminds me of the 15 years I spent in the Corporate World, before striking out on my own to build Cool Shit.  15 years of shoveling against tides taught me an important lesson:

Inspiration Dies In Committee. 

Sad but true, and this is a perfect example of it.

Exactly, my friend! If MM can stick to the original design, it would have a "timeless" charm and it would be much better suited to the historical aspect of Avondale as a whole. It would support the core value of RAP and WLA which they are so blindly against it.

These "silly" organizations are nitpicking at the CURRENT situation, and treat it like "OMG-END OF AVONDALE WE ARE GONNA DIE IN THIS TOWN BECAUSE BIG PIZZA PLACE IS COMING TO DOOM US ALL" Again, these organizations are NOT representing in the best of Avondale and its citizens.

-Josh

[Bativac]

I hope MM can do what they set out to do to start with and that this does not finally make them give up and build elsewhere.

Are these local franchise owners or are all MM locations corporate-owned? It seems like a corporation is only so willing to jump thru hoops before they find an easier site to move into. There are many large strip malls on Beach Boulevard that I'm sure would welcome a Mellow Mushroom.

[If_I_Loved_you]

I hope MM can do what they set out to do to start with and that this does not finally make them give up and build elsewhere.

Are these local franchise owners or are all MM locations corporate-owned? It seems like a corporation is only so willing to jump thru hoops before they find an easier site to move into. There are many large strip malls on Beach Boulevard that I'm sure would welcome a Mellow Mushroom.

Avondale is a hot place for lunch and dinner I hope and pray that MM doesn't give up to the few cry babies that don't want them in Avondale aka the Westside.

[JeffreyS]

The truth is that bigger corporations have attorneys ready to fight the good fight. That is why if you put a bunch of barriers up to development in viable areas you end up with only McDonalds and such moving in gentrifying the neighborhood.

[Pontiffication]

I will show my support for Mellow by riding my bike up there and enjoying some pizza and beer once they open.

That's a good plan, I'll do the same.

I've been to several MMs both here and in the Atlanta area.  They are always an asset to the community.

[Timkin]

^ Thank you.. I totally agree.

[mtraininjax]

Most of the franchises have local ownership in Jacksonville. Every Chick-Fil-A is a partnership between corporate (Atlanta) and someone here locally who has invested $5k and the profits are split down the middle. All the McDonald's I have seen, and Wendy's are locally owned by a franchisee who then has the territory and right to open new stores based on corporate guidelines. The Valentino family owns the rights for MM in Jacksonville, and MM has a very detailed franchise website for those who want to review their guidelines and store size information. Plus John purchased the gas station and dirt under it, so no matter what happens, he is now paying taxes on a parking lot and an empty gas station. That will change at some point.

Having been at Bluefish on Saturday and spent a lot of time with Frank, who is running a great operation with the help of Richard there at Bluefish. The rub on the street is that John wanted, originally, to put in a 300+ seat facility. Many of the other restaurants were, essentially, jealous of such an increase, when they (biscottis and brick) were limited in the amount of space they could expand.

Something I learned from Frank as well is that his group does not look to serve the 20-somethings who want to come in and do a row of shots. The bartenders at Bluefish send this crowd down to Mojo's. There is a fear, and I can understand why, that serving late night happy hour cocktails and beers will lead to more problems on St. Johns, so Frank is right to not add to it. You can have that along the King Street district, which leads to fun issues with neighbors and residents when cars are plowed into by overserved individuals.

I have a lot of new admiration for Frank, he stands up for what he believes, and I like the leadership he shows in Avondale. Love him or hate him, he has character and in this whole mess, there are a number of people on both sides who could show us all more character.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Something I learned from Frank as well is that his group does not look to serve the 20-somethings who want to come in and do a row of shots. The bartenders at Bluefish send this crowd down to Mojo's.

Right.  Because the 40+ entitled crowd that swills scotch and wine and feels the need to make table visits all night is sooooooo much better.   At least the other crowd sticks to the bar and I don't have to worry about them sticking their ass in my dinner while trying to maintain a sense of balance. 

BTW, do they (Bluefish) still have bottomless mimosas at brunch?   

[fieldafm]

Something I learned from Frank as well is that his group does not look to serve the 20-somethings who want to come in and do a row of shots. The bartenders at Bluefish send this crowd down to Mojo's. There is a fear, and I can understand why, that serving late night happy hour cocktails and beers will lead to more problems on St. Johns, so Frank is right to not add to it.

BS

So hip hop night at Elevated Avondale(open until 2AM on weekends) caters to the 'wine and cheese crowd'?

What a load of crap.

Did he also tell you how 'disheartened' he is to have chased off 29 South from opening in Avondale as well?