Are boarding houses really the problem?

[Sportmotor]

You wanna know what the real problem is? Crab-people eval bastards 

[ChriswUfGator]

The truth is that there aren't that many rooming houses of any variety left in Springfield, compared to a few years ago, and that figure will continue to decline into nonexistence due to the zoning/overlay revisions (with the apparent exception of the new one the CEO of Clara White is trying to start).

The terms "not that many" and "a few years" are vague enough to leave those amounts up to interpretation. How many is "not that many" and is "a few years" ago 5-10-20? And how will that number decline if the zoning/overlay revisions continue to allow exceptions for people who weren't able to sell their house at the $$$ they wanted in these tough economic times? Maybe next year they make 10 exceptions? Then you end up with the same cycle starting over again. People won't want to be surrounded by boarding or rooming houses, they start selling, values drop and more people sell before the bottom hits. Then the city ends up losing more money from the falling tax values.
  

When I was a landlord in Springfield, 2000-2005, there were at least several dozen rooming/boarding/multi-resident/call-it-what-you-will houses spread throughout the neighborhood. At least those were the noticeable ones, because they were actually legal. Probably 30-40, or more.

If you count the "off the books" ones, then the true figure was probably in excess of 100. There are almost none today. We're talking at least a 90% reduction. Sorry if you think I was vague, but it wasn't intentional, and I'm happy to take the time to clarify.

[fsu813]

i disgaree. there are 12 today, not including the off the books. probably in the twenties. in 1 square mile. too many not to cause problems.

[ChriswUfGator]

i disgaree. there are 12 today, not including the off the books. probably in the twenties. in 1 square mile. too many not to cause problems.

Still a major reduction, no matter how you cut it...

[strider]

Actually, 11 is the number used by the city and is based on active licenses (both state and health department).  Some think the number should count structures used by those licenses, so in that case, I believe the structures used by those facilites are either 12 to 14 max. One half way house is two connected buildings and I think one, maybe two of the rooming houses have two structures attached to the license. Of the how many structures (left) in Historic Sprignfield?  1200 to 1500? Back when the rooming house were a real problem, they numbered almost 10% of the structures, still a small number of structures in the scheme of things. Think perhaps the much larger number of poorly run rentals were the bigger problem?

[strider]

We can look at Springfield’s history and see that rooming houses were not the problem some believe they were.  They were certainly A problem and perhaps two on each block was too much but the rooming  houses or “density” did not cause any reduction in values all by themselves.  They had lots of other and sometimes more pressing and much larger reasons helping the situation along.

The “special uses” left today do not number two per block and actually represent a reasonable cross section of that type of housing.  Again, looking at the fact that from 2000 to 2007  the special uses went from 40 plus to 11 (13 structures), I think we can assume that the better run facilities are the ones that survived.  And that also means they were the better maintained or at least got much better maintained than before.  The remaining ones have no real impact on property values …  at least for most people.  A few, perhaps, still look for something to blame for the currently reduced values and blame them.

Like any other kind of rental, how the facility is run or the house or apartment rental managed makes all the difference.  When I lived on Pearl back in 1998 to 2004, I knew one place was a rooming house because I lived next to the owner.  The house itself never let me know.  And I didn’t know for a couple more years that a halfway house was just up the street.  The point is, the houses or the facilities rarely cause any issue today and so most people would not even know they were there.

[braeburn]

If I lived in a historic district like Springfield I would want a 'majority' of the properties to be owner occupied. But then again, I like having a neighborhood feeling so maybe I am biased. I've always viewed Springfield to be a very different flavor from say, Riverside. In Riverside, there are a lot of renters and it's a very transient-esque neighborhood. Springfield I've always perceived to be a neighborly-type place. Perhaps I am wrong but isn't that what sets Springfield apart from say, San marco or Riverside?

[downtownparks]

Joe is a big boy and can handle himself, Stephen. Im sure he appreciates your vote of support though.

[strider]

You asked, Dan, if I wanted to do away with the overlay and open new facilities?   To be honest, the overlay does not prevent the opening of new "rooming houses".





Ok, did that get anyone’s attention?  The above is a true statement because some of the roles that were once taken by the rooming houses and the boarding houses are now taken by the extended stay inns and the bed & breakfast’s. We do  have a couple of those in Springfield.  Transient oriented facilities that rent by the day, week or month.   And like the rooming houses of old, if the clientele changes and that mortgage payment has to be made, the extended stays and the bed and breakfast’s will look at filling the room any way they legally can.  Yes, the new codes require less density and a bath for each room as well as other newer regulations, but the bottom line is that if the economy demands that they cater to a group that gets subsidized housing, for instance, these “higher class” places will do it to make the mortgage.

This goes back to the idea that we need to recognize what the real causes of decline are and which ones might we face or be facing again. 

And, yes, Stephen, thanks for your support!

[fsu813]

I talked to someone familar with the Clara-White and the new halfway house in question today.

they said that from what they knew, the only hold up was the sprinkler system installation (it needed one before it could be used). Didn't seem to know much about the on-going contraversy in the neigjhborhood.

However, he said that this house will be used for "transitional" housing. That is, Vets have 2 years to get there life straightened out and move out. If not, they are forced to leave and a new one comes in.

[strider]

This one's for you, Dan!

Dan :  ... Unless you are suggesting we repeal the overlay, and allow more of these facilities to open... thats not what your suggesting... is it?

Joe:  To be honest, the overlay does not prevent the opening of new "rooming houses".

Sorry, I thought that you would get the point that I didn't see any reason to "repeal" the overlay.  New "facilites" can certainly open anytime they want to...as long as the do so according to current laws and codes.

[nvrenuf]

...or not.

[strider]

nvrenuf  - as there was this S@@@ fight going on between Dan and Stephen for a while and it seems to have been removed, what are you referring too?  Something they said?

[nvrenuf]

I was referring to your comment -

as long as the do so according to current laws and codes.

I believe there are those who will open regardless of current laws and codes.

[strider]

nvrenuf, now you know that any thing some here do not like is immediately turned into code enforcement by SPAR Council.  Certanly only the legal ones will survive.  Remember that what some are trying to call "special uses" are not and therfore they are perfectly legal. Case in point, the one talked about that is openning on Boulevard.