St. Johns Town Center Thread

[stjr]

My "lifestyle" is fewer stores and development.  I am heading to a park for my "lifestyle center" 

[avonjax]

Ok here's the deal. 1st whenever I can I support local stores and malls. Also an opinion is just that, but when it's kinda hateful about where someone lives and shops you must expect people to get defensive. Without a little pride in our area what's the point.
Here's my opinion. I was in Tampa most of last week and in Orlando this weekend and about 3 weeks ago and checked out as many of the shopping malls and urban development as I could find.
My shopping mall/lifestyle center opinions are based on both stores and overall design and look of the structures.
BTW I didn't make it to Citrus Park Mall or Tyrone Square in St Petersburg
From Central Florida to Jacksonville.

1. Mall at Millenia
2. St Johns Town Center
3. International Plaza
4. Florida Mall
5. Avenues
6. Hyde Park Village (Would get a higher ranking but so many stores have moved out)

I realize Florida Mall, International Plaza has more upscale stores and Westshore Plaza has a Saks, but I think SJTC is overall a better looking shopping center.

If we had 2 or 3 upscale large stores like Nordstrom's etc. we would be on par with those areas.
Bottom line is, I would and have ocassionally driven to Orlando for Mall at Millenia for the great high end stores and Bloomingdales, Hugo Boss, Crate & Barrel and Ikea. I wouldn't drive to Tampa to shop.

And we have some very good outlet stores in St Augustine. And if you know your merchandise you can get some really good deals.
NE Florida is not too far behind Orlando and the Tampa Bay area in shopping, but in just about every other way we are at least a decade behind.

Btw dropping Toscana was a HUGE mistake. Another reason we are so far behind. Also STJR then maybe a city the size of Jax is not for you.

[avonjax]

BTW CrysG, if you took away all the tourists from Mall at Millenia and looked real hard at the malls in Tampa  you will see the exact same people shopping there as the ones that annoy you at SJTC. Maybe its the fact that you can actually see those "spoiled rich brats" in their Mercedes at SJTC that makes it more obvious, but if you stood in the parking lots in the other cities you would see them get in and out of them.
Sorry, every city has them

[avonjax]

So that all of you won't think I'm an ignorant boob, my post about malls should have read, "I realize Florida Mall has a Saks and Nordstroms, and International Plaza has more upscale..........etc."
When I tried to edited I guess I chopped out that part of the sentence.

[avonjax]

..........and misspelled occasionally...........

[stjr]

Also STJR then maybe a city the size of Jax is not for you.

Avon, sounds like you are a serious (too serious?) shop-a-holic /shopping diva.  That's OK but don't diss those who think there is more to life than shopping 'til you drop.  Parks, recreation, and conserved land are more important to some of us than too many stores that often displace such opportunities.  A true cosmopolitan city has people of many interests with a community to support such diversity.  Some here think sports are #1.  Others, museums, the symphony, etc.  Many want higher education opportunities.  Most want a good mix of things as few of us are single dimensional.  If all you want are more stores, then, to bounce back your quote, maybe Jax isn't the city for you.

By the way, you may not think we have enough stores, but we appear to have as much retail square footage per capita as most any city in the country due to our developer friendly environment. abundant land, and cheaper real estate.  IMHO, mix aside, we have been over-retailed in this market.  Recent store closings bear this out to some degree.  At the end of the recession, it will be interesting to see how high the retail vacancy rate gets.

In 2003 CoStar calculated the total retail space per capita (shopping centers and everything else) for the top 50 U.S. markets. Those 50 markets had an estimated average of 43.71 square feet of retail space. Portland had the third lowest retail space per capita at 27.95 square feet, trailing Long Island and Charlotte. The market with the most retail space per capita was Southwest Florida at 74 square feet, followed by Richmond, Winston-Salem, Greenville, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Toledo, San Antonio, Jacksonville, and Birmingham.

http://villagesolutionscompany.com/blog/retail-density-apples-to-oranges/

[avonjax]

Also STJR then maybe a city the size of Jax is not for you.

Avon, sounds like you are a serious (too serious?) shop-a-holic /shopping diva.  That's OK but don't diss those who think there is more to life than shopping 'til you drop.  Parks, recreation, and conserved land are more important to some of us than too many stores that often displace such opportunities.  A true cosmopolitan city has people of many interests with a community to support such diversity.  Some here think sports are #1.  Others, museums, the symphony, etc.  Many want higher education opportunities.  Most want a good mix of things as few of us are single dimensional.  If all you want are more stores, then, to bounce back your quote, maybe Jax isn't the city for you.

By the way, you may not think we have enough stores, but we appear to have as much retail square footage per capita as most any city in the country due to our developer friendly environment. abundant land, and cheaper real estate.  IMHO, mix aside, we have been over-retailed in this market.  Recent store closings bear this out to some degree.  At the end of the recession, it will be interesting to see how high the retail vacancy rate gets.

In 2003 CoStar calculated the total retail space per capita (shopping centers and everything else) for the top 50 U.S. markets. Those 50 markets had an estimated average of 43.71 square feet of retail space. Portland had the third lowest retail space per capita at 27.95 square feet, trailing Long Island and Charlotte. The market with the most retail space per capita was Southwest Florida at 74 square feet, followed by Richmond, Winston-Salem, Greenville, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Toledo, San Antonio, Jacksonville, and Birmingham.

http://villagesolutionscompany.com/blog/retail-density-apples-to-oranges/

Wow! I’m surprised you took me for a shop-a-holic based on the fact I posted on the SJTC thread.
I have been in retail for the better part of 38 years in department stores and specialty shops. I have been a manager of small local stores, buyer, merchandiser, department manager in national chains and visual merchandising in large local department stores, so malls and lifestyle centers do interest me.  The presences of high end chains like Saks, Neimans and Nordstrom give a perception of what the income and culture of a city is. It may not be fair that some many people the shopping in an area reflects the quality of a city but my many years of dealing with out-of-towners backs up that many unfairly do.
Again I didn’t say we needed more malls or stores just some high end ones like every other major
Florida city.
I didn’t mean to bash you, but you kind of equated that if a person has an appreciation for good retail they probably lack diversity in their lifestyle. And in my opinion only, if you have all the other big city pros and cons then why not have the same retail options. I guess it’s just me. (I want an IKEA.)
I don’t know if you intended for me to misunderstand, but so you will know more about me, I love sports, museums, parks, the beach and so on.
Since photography is my great passion in life, my goal is to visit and photograph every park in Jacksonville and the surrounding areas. As a matter of fact I have literally thousands of photographs of our local parks.
My trip this last week to central Florida was mostly to take pictures. I took about a thousand. My unquestionably favorite place I visited was Hollis Garden in Lakeland. (If you haven’t been there I highly recommend it. The place is gorgeous. And when appropriate I will post some pictures I took there.) And I finally got to go to Cross Creek and take pictures of Marjorie Kennan Rawlings house and surroundings. So I love the natural and historic sites and experiences as much as or more so than the commercial. I just want to be able to buy Armani if I’m in the mood or have the money.
I should have been nicer to you Stjr.

[reednavy]

Oh, just what SJTC needs, ANOTHER sushi/Japanese inspired eatery. Wasabi is nice, and very well presented in it's decor as well. I was shocked to learn they're based out of Knoxville.

[Deuce]

The market with the most retail space per capita was  Southwest Florida at 74 square feet, followed by  Richmond, Winston-Salem, Greenville, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Toledo, San Antonio, Jacksonville, and Birmingham.

How many of those are Wal-marts? I can attest to the retail space in Greenville, they have a ton of stores. The city is also the shopping destination of a lot of people in the upstate.

[Captain Zissou]

reednavy, chill.  I tried to explain earlier how Bento differentiates itself from other Japanese restaurants, but apparently you didn't read that or your bias prevented you from understanding my point.

The Gainesville and O-Town sushi markets are as oversupplied as Jacksonville, but Bento has thrived in both of those markets.  I hope the rest of you consider my positive remarks about it and give it a try. I think you will be pleased.

[reednavy]

reednavy, chill.  I tried to explain earlier how Bento differentiates itself from other Japanese restaurants, but apparently you didn't read that or your bias prevented you from understanding my point.

The Gainesville and O-Town sushi markets are as oversupplied as Jacksonville, but Bento has thrived in both of those markets.  I hope the rest of you consider my positive remarks about it and give it a try. I think you will be pleased.

Well Captain,

until it does open, my opinion won't change. There's no bias when I'm stating a fact, we have enough already. I'll try it, but until it opens and I do, I don't expect anything orally stimulating. So, until this "grand" opening into the market happens, no chill, just harsh fact stating. It's cut and dry here, no lubrication, deal with it.

[blizz01]

I thought that we just established (on another thread), that Sumo Sushi was the best in town(?)

[stjr]

Also STJR then maybe a city the size of Jax is not for you.

Avon, sounds like you are a serious (too serious?) shop-a-holic /shopping diva.  That's OK but don't diss those who think there is more to life than shopping 'til you drop.  Parks, recreation, and conserved land are more important to some of us than too many stores that often displace such opportunities.  A true cosmopolitan city has people of many interests with a community to support such diversity.  Some here think sports are #1.  Others, museums, the symphony, etc.  Many want higher education opportunities.  Most want a good mix of things as few of us are single dimensional.  If all you want are more stores, then, to bounce back your quote, maybe Jax isn't the city for you.

By the way, you may not think we have enough stores, but we appear to have as much retail square footage per capita as most any city in the country due to our developer friendly environment. abundant land, and cheaper real estate.  IMHO, mix aside, we have been over-retailed in this market.  Recent store closings bear this out to some degree.  At the end of the recession, it will be interesting to see how high the retail vacancy rate gets.

In 2003 CoStar calculated the total retail space per capita (shopping centers and everything else) for the top 50 U.S. markets. Those 50 markets had an estimated average of 43.71 square feet of retail space. Portland had the third lowest retail space per capita at 27.95 square feet, trailing Long Island and Charlotte. The market with the most retail space per capita was Southwest Florida at 74 square feet, followed by Richmond, Winston-Salem, Greenville, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Toledo, San Antonio, Jacksonville, and Birmingham.

http://villagesolutionscompany.com/blog/retail-density-apples-to-oranges/

I didn’t mean to bash you, but you kind of equated that if a person has an appreciation for good retail they probably lack diversity in their lifestyle. And in my opinion only, if you have all the other big city pros and cons then why not have the same retail options. I guess it’s just me. (I want an IKEA.)
I don’t know if you intended for me to misunderstand, but so you will know more about me, I love sports, museums, parks, the beach and so on.
Since photography is my great passion in life, my goal is to visit and photograph every park in Jacksonville and the surrounding areas. As a matter of fact I have literally thousands of photographs of our local parks.
My trip this last week to central Florida was mostly to take pictures. I took about a thousand. My unquestionably favorite place I visited was Hollis Garden in Lakeland. (If you haven’t been there I highly recommend it. The place is gorgeous. And when appropriate I will post some pictures I took there.) And I finally got to go to Cross Creek and take pictures of Marjorie Kennan Rawlings house and surroundings. So I love the natural and historic sites and experiences as much as or more so than the commercial. I just want to be able to buy Armani if I’m in the mood or have the money.
I should have been nicer to you Stjr.

OK, Avon, I accept your good graces and we smoke'm peace pipe 

I actually share your love for photography of our parks.  This year, I have had the good fortune to visit quite a few state parks in Northeast Florida that are way under-appreciated by us locals.  That makes them less crowded which increases my pleasure of them but they are nonetheless outstanding jewels that I expect to grow tremendously in appreciation going forward.  Selfishly, I only wish we possessed even more of them.  I plan to start a MJ thread on some of these state parks soon if MJ doesn't beat me to it  .

Our city parks and historic sites (not much of this in Duval unfortunately) are also undervalued.  I think that Jax has just been changing too quickly for long timers to realize how fast our green spaces have disappeared and for newcomers, they just haven't ventured about the place much (too much time in the stores?  - just kidding Avon!).

[ProjectMaximus]

One really exciting thing going on at the TC is the addition of Bento, a casual Japanese restaurant.

Bento's, sweet! youre hittin me with some serious nostalgia.

[CS Foltz]

Well.........I think that they blew it with not having any Inter Store transportation. This would have given them another leg up by offering something that no other Mall had to offer. Developer did not think outside of the box and blew the chance to offer light rail/trolley! Valet parking my left ham hock!