LEGALIZE MARIJUANA AND PROSTITUTION

[heights unknown]

Where in the world did this thread come from?  Are y'all crazy!?

Heights Unknown

[macbeth25]

Heights Unknown:  Whether or not I am or the others who have responded to this thread are crazy is a matter for a psychiatrist.  For the purpose of this thread, it doesn't matter.  The question is a legitimate one.  Our nation, states, counties and possibly smaller communities make money by allowing the legal sale of tobacco and alcohol products, regulating their production and quality and then collecting taxes on those sales. 
Both alcohol and tobacco have been proven to be harmful to human beings and have been known to kill.  Yet the ingredients are legally grown and the end products manufactured and sold.  The resulting tax money helps the taxing body run its business.  Some, perhaps many, people like to smoke Marijuana or use it in its various forms.  If produced incorrectly, I’m sure Marijuana could be even more dangerous. 
Legalizing its growth, manufacture and sale would facilitate regulation and provide much needed tax revenue, the same as legalizing the sale of alcohol and tobacco has done. Legalizing its growth and use would also eliminate some of the reason to arrest and incarcerate people for using what may be another variant of already accepted and legal alcohol and tobacco use.  This would save both money and time.  The additional revenue resulting from the taxing of its legal sale may lessen many financial problems faced by taxing entities.
This seems a valid solution to a multitude of problems involving policing, incarceration, health and tax revenues, just to name a few.  Have you suggestions concerning how to improve the present situation?  How is it different from the legalization of alcohol following prohibition?

[heights unknown]

Then if we legalize marijuana and prostitution, why not legalize crack cocaine, heroin, prescription drugs of all kinds (put them "over the counter" for anyone to use and abuse), methadone, metheamphetamines, and any other drugs that are now illegal.  And oh, legalize other crimes like murder, adultery, etc.

I am not trying to be sarcastic, but usually along with drug use/abuse comes prostitution, and so with some other crimes as well, they go hand in hand, so you will probably be looking at an even more "out of control" society if you legalize marijuana and prostitution.

Didn't mean to belittle anyone and I apologize for the way I sounded, but it was a shock that someone would even think or consider legalizing marijuana and prostitution; and again, not to be sarcastic or "smart mouthed" as my Grandma used to say, but if you legalize those two you just as well legalize everything else that's illegal and is a crime.

Heights Unknown

[Deuce]

I am not trying to be sarcastic, but usually along with drug use/abuse comes prostitution, and so with some other crimes as well, they go hand in hand, so you will probably be looking at an even more "out of control" society if you legalize marijuana and prostitution.

Where's your data. This is simply not true. Look at those countries where these things are legal and tell me they are out of control. Is CA out of control with the more or less decriminalization that has occurred? Is NV out of control with the legal prostitution or the gambling? Most people who smoke marijuana would not be criminals if it was legalized. They would be doing the same thing they were before but now they wouldn't be doing something that is illegal. People who commit crimes related to drugs are typically doing hard drugs and no one is arguing for their legalization.

if you legalize those two you just as well legalize everything else that's illegal and is a crime

WTF? Where's your logical, rational argument for this. Most of the posts on this forum for and against these issues have argued their point cogently (see Ock's pt's against legal prossies). Your comments sound like the same irrational responses I hear when gay marriage comes up (another hot button issue for people).

[macbeth25]

Very Well Put.

[JaxNative68]

so, how do you feel about gay marriage?

. . . and I was just joking.  Do not answer the question, I'm afraid it will start a new string of irrational thought.

[Sportmotor]

so, how do you feel about gay marriage?

for it

[Ocklawaha]

Schwaz, how are prostitutes "victims" of police?

I'm not saying it's common place but I'm sure many prostitutes have been beaten raped an/ or robbed by police through out history.

Not in Nevada and Rhode Island where it is legal.

Man this is rich! Did you know that sex between a man and a woman has been legal in China for century's? Duh? Legal sex NEVER even slowed down the Japanese Army who came to visit the women of Nanking. We know at least 200,000 were raped, tortured, impaled, and butchered. It's pretty easy math really, cars are legal but that doesn't stop speeders. Banking is legal but that doesn't stop robbers. Sex is legal and that doesn't stop rapist and sexual predators. If prostitution is legal it will just make it that much easier for criminals to access a target.

The number of prostitutes abused sexually as children is nearly 99%, for some it has been the only "love" they have ever experienced. These women ARE victims, even if they don't know it and are legally out selling their bodies. They are programed to perform and without some serious clinical intervention, most will self destruct. As they age and fall from youthfull beauty they are abandoned again. No matter how "cool" they were with the sex for hire, the same men who once patronized them would now support having them removed from the street. This is a social disease and it is rooted in disfunctional families all around the world.

OCKLAWAHA

[macbeth25]

What are your sources for this information?  I haven't checked into this yet in the detail you seem to have employed, but do you nave any real information or statistics to prove your points from the area of Nevada, for example, which does have legalized prostitution? What about from countries where prostitution is legal -- though I'm afraid some of them might not take as good care of their ladies as I think legal brothels do here.  Even the tone of your posts -- very dark, bold faced type -- indicates to me that you are shouting and that is the mark of someone who is simply against -- or for -- something and hopes sheer volume will make his point. 

[NotNow]

macb,

"The Rape of Nanking" by the occupying Japanese is a well documented event from WW2.  I don't want to speak for Ock but I know that he has had a lot of exposure to the condition of working girls and has become involved in trying to help them.  My experiences agree with Ock's assessment.  I am talking about "street prostitutes" here.  I have no experience with the Nevada brothels but I have to believe that the same psychological factors that drive girls to such behaviour still applies.

[NotNow]

Nope, I think that you are off base on every point except the internet.  I would imagine that those who have some kind of offbeat fetish now find it easier to hook up with others of the same ilk.  Internet hookers are still placing themselves in great danger and I believe that the pathology that Ock describes exists in all of these girls (and the men too).  While I have only had exposure to "street Prostitutes", both men and women, I have yet to meet one who wasn't just a sad case of mental problems.  Most are drug addicted, which in my non-expert opinion is, like prostitution itself, a symptom of their problems.  A symptom that just adds serious and deadly complications to their life.  I would agree that jail time does nothing for these people and they will re offend as soon as they get out, but jail does protect the citizens who must coexist with those that choose this lifestyle.  Beatings?  In over twenty years I have never seen a prostitute beaten by an Officer.  I think most LEO's feel like I do and while often disgusted, they are just sad cases.  I have seen many beaten by customers or as a result of attempting to steal from customers.  A couple of male prostitutes over the years  were beaten as a result of a customers not realizing they were not women until well into the "transaction".  Any claims of Police rape of prostitutes and the other outlandish allegations of Police involvement beyond an occasional individual are false.  Once you are exposed to these girls living conditions and personal habits, and conversed with them at any level beyond "how much", you will find that there is a natural revulsion to any contact beyond putting on cuffs or getting them to shelter.  As for all of your other points, I think they are conjecture not based in any factual experience or study.  But I claim no special expertise in such things.  I have never been a vice Officer and my contact has been limited to patrol street contact.  The participants have seemed interchangeable in different states and cities that I have worked.   Again, I have no contact with Nevada style bordello's, but I would suspect that the same pathology leads the girls to such behavior.  Ock is much more knowledgeable about the personal lives of these girls, and has had a much more varied and personal experience through (I think, correct me if wrong, Ock) friends of his who fell into this lifestyle.

I have a generally libertarian view, and really don't care if most want to legalize MJ.  (As long as we tax the snot out of it.)  And my political beliefs compel me to say the same about prostitution, but my heart says that this is wrong and these girls (and men) should be protected somehow.  Even if from themselves.  In this way I think that Ock and I have arrived at the same place in that this is a mental condition that must be dealt with.  I would defer to those trained in psychology beyond that.

[macbeth25]

The subject of homosexuality sometimes come up in threads.  I, personally, don't agree with it and do not ever plan to be involved with it but that shouldn't matter to anyone --at least I hope I don't start some big hullabaloo (I'm afraid to check to see if I've spelled that right) about whether it's right or wrong.  I personally don't care what others do as long as they leave me out of it.  Enough said about that.  My point is that some years ago I worked for a major telephone company and, while they did not support -- I think it was called "Gay Pride week" or something -- they did allow employees to have programs relating to that on their breaks and/or lunch times.  I was a customer service rep and took calls from customers.  Some of them, very emphatically, said that AIDS and HIV were plagues sent by God to punish those who were gay.  I did some checking in various places and found that a heterosexual who was promiscuous was far more likely to get a STD than a "gay" couple who were faithful to each other. 

[Dog Walker]

It's a simple progression:

Legal or illegal, prostitution will not be eliminated, ever, anywhere.
Much of the damage to those acting as sex workers is due to their activities being illegal.
Legalizing and regulating the activity can reduce the harm and problems associated with it.
If we can't eliminate it, we should at least reduce the harm.

[NotNow]

macb,

For the facts on HIV/Aids transmission and stats:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/transmission.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#exposure

I think it is obvious that behaviors such as prostitution greatly increase one's chances of contracting STD's including HIV/Aid's.

StephenDare!,

To be honest, in my experience the male customers could come from all walks of life and income.  Most seemed to be married guys who either had fallen into the drug/slum life or just came to the media advertised area where easy and affordable sex was found.  Commonly, the men come early before work, on a lunch hour, or less often in the evening hours.  There were local customers and maybe the fact that my attention was more easily drawn to girls with a car stopped on the street instead of person to person contact skewed my observations, but that was the way I saw it.  

When speaking of internet prostitutes I am talking about the "Craigslist" type.  There is no screening that I know of.  I assume the girls request to meet in a public place until they are comfortable, but I am not sure how it works.  If there are sites that "screen" the customers somehow then I would assume that the dangers are reduced in that there is some kind of "team" or "lookout" who knows where the girl is and who (somewhat) she is with.  Again, I have never worked vice, so my contact with these girls is limited to the street variety.

[NotNow]

I'm sorry, I thought you meant the customers.  I think a small percentage of them start as thrillseekers.  Many start as dancers for the lure of money, and the lifestyle leads down a predictable road, so you could say poor adds to the list.  (This is where I usually rant about the "innocent" topless bars.)  It appears that the young men who are gay find that their sexual orientation can lead them to what appears to be easy money, but then the same traps await them.  Most of the girls who wind up on the street are there because of a combination of drug addiction and a boyfriend/pimp/creep who controls their lives, so that fits as well.  You learn to try to not engage these girls in personal conversation, as their stories are just universally awful.  Like most people that Officers engage, ten minutes of talk on the way to the PTDF won't make up for fifteen or sixteen years of bad parents, bad relationships, and bad choices.

Again, I don't know that I would blame an economic or relationship so much as it appears that they fall into a mental state of "this is all I am."    It is a very difficult subject that needs attention.  But there are many such subjects.