The Rest of the State attends Federal Rail Rollout Meet, But Not Jacksonville!

[Lunican]

Mtrain, I don't really understand what your argument is.

First you say Amtrak should make money the way the airlines do and if it can't, it should be shut down.

Then when it was pointed out that the airlines are losing money, you list the excuses as to why the airlines are real capitalists despite the losses.

After that, you shifted your argument to subsidies and how Amtrak unfairly gets more than the rest, which is false.

Now you believe that all transportation is a racket?

[BridgeTroll]

Mtrain, I don't really understand what your argument is.

Nor have I... they shift continuously...

[transitlover]

Do you really think the way to impress the Feds is three guys from Jacksonville at a public meeting in South Florida?  Give me a break.  It is across the table in Jacksonville or in Washington.  JTA, FDOT and Mayor Peyton know that.  Obviously the three smartest men in the room that day didn't.  Why not head straight to DC with empty suitcases and bring back some FTA money ready and for the asking? 

Did you notice there is no high speed rail link between Orlando and Jacksonville?

[thelakelander]

Do you really think the way to impress the Feds is three guys from Jacksonville at a public meeting in South Florida?  Give me a break.  It is across the table in Jacksonville or in Washington.  JTA, FDOT and Mayor Peyton know that.  Obviously the three smartest men in the room that day didn't.  Why not head straight to DC with empty suitcases and bring back some FTA money ready and for the asking?

(Regarding this event) Because the FTA had the Florida meeting held in Orlando (centralized location) to help decide how HSR and intercity passenger rail stimulus money would be best used in Florida.

Did you notice there is no high speed rail link between Orlando and Jacksonville?

Yes, this is pretty clear.  However, its also clear that an intercity link will also have to be provided and that Jax is the rail gateway to Florida.  All of this just adds to the case of why its important for Jax to show up at these events.  

[Steve]

transitlover - I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.  My point is that these pople are making a point to come to a convenient locale for Florida Transit Authorities to come to, and we said, "No, that's okay".  I know they were at the Reality Check event, but these folks can't multi-task?

Bottom line - someone should have gone besides Metro Jacksonville (Jacksonville's only representation).

Finally, welcome to the site transitlover - I look forward to your input to the discucssion!

[cline]

Are we really trying to make the claim that our planners themselves need to be taught how to think about these issues?  All of our planners?

The planners don't need to be taught how to think about these issues, but the planners aren't the ones who make the final decisions - that is up to the elected officials.  The planners can make recommendations based on their professional knowledge but if the leaders who make the final decisions don't buy in to that recommendation then it is useless.  Part of the purpose of Reality Check was to allow the community leaders and elected officials to look at growth in a different way and think about new ways in which the area can grow in the future. 

[tufsu1]

The lunch was $45 for anyone not involved in the morning event....the 200+ leader-types who were there that morning (along with about 100 other folks) were  given lunch.

And to add to what Cline said, many of the planners at the event served as table facilitators...which gave them a great opportunity to interact with the actual decision-makers

[tufsu1]

You are partially correct...anyone could be nominated....but that doen't mean you were selected to participate.

And yes, the lunch and afternoon event were open to all...for $45

As for ULI....I was a member for several years and one of my co-workers is currently....below is from their website....

ULI was founded in 1936 as a nonprofit, nonpartisan research and educational institute under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. ULI represents over 40,000 members worldwide, and has experienced tremendous growth in the last few years.

[tufsu1]

I was nominated and not selected....becuase they didn't want too many practicing planners actually playing the game.

Is that good enough for you?

[tufsu1]

yes...because I paid $45 and attended the lunch and afternoon session....but I did not participate in the gameing exercise in the morning....is it really that hard to understand!

[tufsu1]

Ok...last time

Approximately 300 people played the game in the morning

Around 450 attended the lunch and afternoon session....this is where Marilee Utter spoke as well as folks like John Delaney, Brian Teeple, and Bob Rhodes....the results from the morning session were presented and some voting on preferences took place.

The info. from both the morning and afternoon can be seen in the PPT on the website below.

http://www.realitycheckfirstcoast.com/

The pics from the tables arefrom the AM...the summary statistiucs are from the PM

To my knowledge, no agreement was signed....that comes down the road

[tufsu1]

Here's the agenda from that day...if it helps

7:30 am Continental Breakfast and Registration

8:00 am Welcome to Reality Check

8:05 am A Look Ahead: Morning Keynote Presentation
Ed McMahon, ULI Charles Fraser Senior Resident Fellow for Sustainable Development

8:45 am Rules of the Game

9:00 - 11:30 am Reality Check First Coast Exercise

12:00 pm Luncheon (in the Ballroom)

12:30 pm Luncheon Keynote Presentation
Marilee Utter, ULI
President, Citiventure Associates, LLC

1:15 pm Morning Session Overview

1:45 pm Results of the Morning Session

2:15 pm Participant Polling

2:30 pm Next Steps

2:45 pm Closing Remarks

3:00 pm Adjourn

[tufsu1]

yes that would be great...please do!

in the meantime, you may want to brush up on ULI...and check their membership rates.

http://www.uli.org/sitecore/content/ULI2Home/JoinULI/ULIMemberTypesAndBenefits.aspx

Does this seem like some sort of "New Deal non-profit" group to you?

[stjr]

Here were the local attendees to the Reality Check Luncheon.
Which cost 45 dollars to be a part of.

Some very nice, interested, and capable people on this list.  I know quite a few of them.

However, it boils down to mostly the standard reps for government entities, contractors, architects, engineers, developers, consultants, lawyers, financiers, and a few other larger community entities and vested interests.  I couldn't readily identify reps from a wide range of civic and neighborhood groups/associations, environmental groups, every day citizens, "counter-growth" groups, or other areas of our community that might stand up and say something dramatically different than the "conventional wisdom" already floating around here or that would seriously challenge the status quo.

Can anyone confirm otherwise?  If not, I think this makes these confabs less meaningful and representative of all the options we may have, or, to cut to the chase, a "rubber stamp" for an existing agenda.

[tufsu1]

the 300 people who played the game were a mix of public, private, and non-profit sectors...and the mix did include folks from often-opposing points of view (like the Riverkeeper and JAXPORT)...they were mixed up at the tables (along with bringing people in from each of the 7 counties)....the result, from what I've heard, was very lively discussions and compromise....all a good thing.

The lunch and aftrnoon event drew more of the "typical" ULI folks - developers, engineers, architects, etc.