Suburban Walkability: Markets at Town Center

Metro Jacksonville · April 16, 2009, 05:00:00 AM

Suburban Walkability: Markets at Town Center

The Markets at Town Center is the latest addition to Jacksonville's suburban retail powerhouse.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/1058

zoo · April 16, 2009, 06:56:32 AM

Good effort by Ben Carter Properties and the developer of Market Town Center to re-define "walkable" to apply to a vast parking wasteland. I suppose the Sahara is "walkable," but unless you're a camel, who would want to?

If a suburbanite is spoon fed by the right person/party, they will eat...

jbovinette · April 16, 2009, 07:10:33 AM

I always thought that putting a parking garage in at the St. John's Town Center would have opened more space for retail. I think they really would have benefited from that.

John

nestliving · April 16, 2009, 07:16:25 AM

is it "walkable" if 95% of Jacksonville has to drive to it? it's bullshit, typical and just as ugly/pointless as every other suburban strip mall Jacksonville has. in 10 years it will look like regency.

BridgeTroll · April 16, 2009, 07:41:58 AM

Oh those poor mislead and stupid suburbanites... How silly that they flock to a vibrant and hugely popular shopping center when they could do the same in our beautiful downtown or springfield setting. In the midst of this recession/depression the town center is packed with shoppers.

I guess I can understand the envy...

copperfiend · April 16, 2009, 08:19:44 AM

Quote from: nestliving on April 16, 2009, 07:16:25 AM
is it "walkable" if 95% of Jacksonville has to drive to it? it's bullshit, typical and just as ugly/pointless as every other suburban strip mall Jacksonville has. in 10 years it will look like regency.

How is it pointless?

5PointsGuy · April 16, 2009, 08:53:53 AM

Wait... THERE'S SHOPPING OFF JTB!?!?

Seriously though, if I'm not mistaken, the Towncenter is located near many condominium/apartment complexes that are within walking distance. I could be wrong though... http://www.thedevlingroup.com/gallery_toscana_st_johns_town_center.html seems to be a 9 story complex, but it doesn't seem to be completed yet.

Doctor_K · April 16, 2009, 09:07:11 AM

Like I mentioned in another thread, it's walkable for me. I love it.

If some want to look down on me because I'm "that poor suburbanite SOB," so be it.

And BT is absolutely right. The downturn/recession stops at the Town Center's borders. Place is slammed every weekend and even most days.

Shwaz · April 16, 2009, 09:38:41 AM

Quoteis it "walkable" if 95% of Jacksonville has to drive to it? it's bullshit, typical and just as ugly/pointless as every other suburban strip mall Jacksonville has. in 10 years it will look like regency.

You couldn't be more wrong. It doesn't look like anything around here... closest in comparrison would be the St. Augustine Outlets. People obviously love the SJTC as it is doing so well in this sh*t economy.

That being said, I hate the SJTC. It's crowded, over priced and doesn't have much more than Lettuce Wraps at PF Changs that attracts me. I'm glad they didn't build something like this in my neighborhood.

Deuce · April 16, 2009, 09:47:52 AM

I think the photo of the building with the photo mural of people dining in a cafe perfectly sums up this addition to the SJTC. An ersatz example of a walkable vibrant downtown.

I do shop there as they offer unique shopping experiences not replicable anywhere else in North Florida (i.e. Bo Concept, West Elm, Sephora, Anthroplogie, Cole Haan, Louis Vuitton). It is for this reason that I don't think the STJC will suffer the same fate as the other malls so readily. These retailers do not expand aggressively and have limited presence even in Metropolitan areas much larger than ours with larger levels of disposable income as well. For example, there are only two Bo Concepts in the entire D.C metro region and they are 4 times our size.

I also never understood why SJTC didn't build vertical. Placing condos within walking distance of the stores is great but why not build condos over the stores. I'm guessing parking garages were not considered because of the greater expense to build and maintain, but they could have easily charged to park to cover costs. With such unique draws, people would have paid. It's like they feel obligated to develop every inch of land they own rather than concentrate density and leave rest of the parcel unspoiled.

ProjectMaximus · April 16, 2009, 10:07:20 AM

Quote from: Deuce on April 16, 2009, 09:47:52 AM
but they could have easily charged to park to cover costs. With such unique draws, people would have paid.

I think the free parking was a requirement to attract many of those very retailers. Still, good point about going vertical.

David · April 16, 2009, 10:17:32 AM

You have to walk at SJTC, because no one knows how to use a 4-way stop!

stephElf · April 16, 2009, 10:23:33 AM

I am not a huge fan of the Town Center, but that is mainly because people there can't drive worth a sh*t and most of the restaurants are chains and I tend to support mom & pop places. That being said the Town Center is hugely successful and does offer up a few things I enjoy like The Grape, DSW, Garlic Pickles from Ted's!! and PF Chang's selection of dips/ hot sauces.

It is walkable... how can someone say it's not? May not be enjoyable when it's 96 degrees out to walk from Old Navy to Cantino Laredo, but it is possible. I don't think it will look like an outdated plaza off Baymeadows or Regency in ten years either... there are some mega $$$ retailers in there and I think the owners & retailers will be invested in keeping the place looking clean, fresh and hip.

I do think they should incorporate some sort of trolley though... either for free or with an all-day / monthly pass and just have them continuously circle the parking lot from one end to the other with frequent stops. That would really be nice when it's raining, hot or you have 6 or 7 bags full of Christmas stuff.

Sigma · April 16, 2009, 10:38:50 AM

Shopping centers don't build vertical because the retailers don't want it. Their studies show that buyers don't care to shop on upper levels. The commercial developers don't particularly care for multi use because they don't want to get into the residential component.

Parking garages are a large expense, so until land prices get high enough, they will keep single level lots.

Until these things change, keep detroying vast amounts of land and pave it all!

reednavy · April 16, 2009, 12:03:38 PM

Future plans do call for the lot behind Cantina Laredo to become an anchor, as well as the lot and grass behind J. A's. In order for more to take this palce seriously, we need upscale retailers, or those dollars will continue to flock to Orlando, Tampa, or Atlanta. This mall is a chance to really grasp onto more of our local dolalrs, and not driving elsewhere. Even though people loath Neimans and Nordstrom, we certainly have the money here to keep them going, it'll take some time for the place to get more visibility to those retailers and once they come, I'll be more proud because we'd keep more money here in Duval County.

Even though it is a pain to get to, I enjoy the setting of SJTC, it is quite nice and I enjoy the jusic they play over the speakers. You ahve to admit, even if you hate it, it was designed fairly well. However, I think they should eliminate or at least reduce the availability of driving through. I can't tell you how many times people almsot, hell, some do drive through the stop signs.