Tony Allegretti hired as Market Manager of the Riverside Arts Market

[blizz01]

Man, I couldn't help but look south down the river from the market & wish for a Riverwalk extension to Memorial Park - any idea if & when?

[The Compound]

I thought that was supposed to happen, but Im not sure when.

[thelakelander]

I second that.  Unfortunately, it will probably have to wait for the next Mayor.  The current administration is still struggling with the courthouse situation.

[Steve]

It certainly could be much worse, and Riverside in the other direction is MUCH worse, but pretty landscaping doesn't make something vibrant, exhibit A being the Main Street Pocket Park.  It looks really nice, however the pictures lake posted above is an example of what I think of when I think of vibrancy.

Also, keep in mind if I was walking to 5 points, I would walk the most direct way, so the Row and Memorial Park (which in my opinion are two of the three highlights of that part of Riverside Avenue) don't really count as "on the way" to 5 Points.

Imagine this:

The Cummer (who now owns the Women's Club), and the Garden Club might look "pretty", however they don't really interact with their surroundings.  Imagine if the Cummer had a cafe on one of the outside walls, with ourdoor seating (the weather on Saturday was beautiful).  That would truly make it interactive with its surroundings.

You also have those thingsa that you mentioned, surrounded by 50's and 60's era Office Buildings that have setbacks and no interaction with the street.  Connectivity is not about a couple of diamonds in the rough, it's about a continuous strip of activity.  Imagine if the 1000 Riverside building had a nice sidewalk cafe that was open even 6 days a week.  That would add to the urban atmoswhere.

Another example where we have succeeded is Margaret St.  We took an area that looked "ok" at best, and with the Riverside Market Square deveopment and 1661 Riverside, we transformed the street to an area of shops and restaraunts.

[Steve]

I thought that was supposed to happen, but Im not sure when.

Yes, it is drawn up.  The residents at one of the towers opposed it, but everyone else supported it.  However, then the city realized that it wouldn't be free, so they shelved it.

[stephElf]

There is no denying there is room for improvement and public transportation that functions better than our current bus-system and people-mover/monorail would be great... I just mean what we have in place now is pretty decent and 5 points and riverside has come a long way in the last several years.

[Shwaz]

It certainly could be much worse, and Riverside in the other direction is MUCH worse, but pretty landscaping doesn't make something vibrant, exhibit A being the Main Street Pocket Park.  It looks really nice, however the pictures lake posted above is an example of what I think of when I think of vibrancy.

Also, keep in mind if I was walking to 5 points, I would walk the most direct way, so the Row and Memorial Park (which in my opinion are two of the three highlights of that part of Riverside Avenue) don't really count as "on the way" to 5 Points.

I consider parking on Margaret/ Herschel / Publix in the discussion of parking "at 5 points". 5 Points doesn't actually have a large amount of spots and is normally busy early Saturday.

Also complaining about the "vibrancy" of a 3 block walk is kinda ridiculous. Transportation, street cars, vendor quality and even alchohol sales are much more important than "I had to walk by an ugly building on a cruddy side walk". If you want a nice walk take Margaret to Riverside Ave. but I really think most don't care.

[thelakelander]

but I really think most don't care.

I agree, most probably don't care because they are driving.

[Shwaz]

I agree, most probably don't care because they are driving.

Driving to where? There wasn't 40,000 parking spots in the immediate area.

[thelakelander]

If there were 40k visitors, most did not come from Riverside, since the neighborhood does not have 40k residents.  According to the estimates, there were only 10k people there at a time.  Considering there would be a good amount of turnover throughout the day, 40k spaces would not be needed.  Also, several people in the 40k number biked or came from the downtown area, via the Riverwalk.  Nevertheless, its probably a safe assumption to assume that most drove into the surrounding area, judging by the number of cars on the street and people on the sidewalks.

[Bewler]

The parking lots at Fidelity were packed. Oh but of course it's 5 story car garage was locked up.

Brilliant!

[Shwaz]

Nevertheless, its probably a safe assumption to assume that most drove into the surrounding area, judging by the number of cars on the street and people on the sidewalks.

I agree... and I'm saying a lot of people parked in the area of 5 points and walked over. I know that first hand as I walked back to 5 points amongst many many people who were returning to their cars.

My entire point was 2 fold
1. The walk back to 5 points via Riverside Ave/ Margaret is very nice.
2. The more direct less appealing route doesn't bother most people.

Could it be better / nicer? Sure. But that's not what most important for RAM.

[grimss]

Wow, what an active discussion. I can't answer everyone's concerns, but I have forwarded a link to this board to the RAM folks, who will be meeting Tuesday to discuss how things went.  Please keep in mind this was just the market's first day (albeit after thousands of hours of planning).  The mix of vendors and products at the market will be constantly changing, and the farmers market component will continue to grow.  

Many of you have noted that we want to find a way to encourage market goers to fan off into the rest of the area to continue their Saturday experience.  One idea that we're playing with is to have  an MP3 walking tour available either for iPod download from the RAP site, or directly at the RAP Market booth, that would use words and vintage photographs to sketch the history of the area.  We've already got an hour-long tour script complete for the St. Johns Quarter that takes you from Memorial Park, down to River Boulevard, and then through that area connecting eventually to Margaret and Oak.  We'll just add historical material for the stretch between RAM and Memorial Park, which is the starting point for the present tour. What do you think?? Would people be interested in this?

You wouldn't believe what used to be there along the strip that some of you think is now so bleak.  In fact, under the shell of that hideous office building on Riverside (the white stucco one that has a central glass line featuring . . . the stairwell), lies a fabulous old mansion that was "remade" by (not-so-good) architect Brooks Haas. Look at the massive stone corner foundation walls for a hint of what hides underneath . . .

[RiversideLoki]

I agree.. I really don't think people cared about the scenery walking to the art market. Publix was packed, 5 points was packed, off-street by riverside park was packed. All of the little streets around the area's offstreets were packed. So people didn't seem to have a problem walking.

[thelakelander]

Many of you have noted that we want to find a way to encourage market goers to fan off into the rest of the area to continue their Saturday experience.  One idea that we're playing with is to have  an MP3 walking tour available either for iPod download from the RAP site, or directly at the RAP Market booth, that would use words and vintage photographs to sketch the history of the area.  We've already got an hour-long tour script complete for the St. Johns Quarter that takes you from Memorial Park, down to River Boulevard, and then through that area connecting eventually to Margaret and Oak.  We'll just add historical material for the stretch between RAM and Memorial Park, which is the starting point for the present tour. What do you think?? Would people be interested in this?

Grimss, great idea.  I know this is something I would be interested in.  Its also a great way to pull people further into the historic district.

Nevertheless, its probably a safe assumption to assume that most drove into the surrounding area, judging by the number of cars on the street and people on the sidewalks.

I agree... and I'm saying a lot of people parked in the area of 5 points and walked over. I know that first hand as I walked back to 5 points amongst many many people who were returning to their cars.

My entire point was 2 fold
1. The walk back to 5 points via Riverside Ave/ Margaret is very nice.
2. The more direct less appealing route doesn't bother most people.

Could it be better / nicer? Sure. But that's not what most important for RAM.

Yes, in my post regarding the surrounding area's walkability (the one with the images), I said it had nothing to do with the market itself.  What I was taking about was something on a larger everyday type of vibrancy level.  If what I was taking about was in play, those sidewalks would stay busy on the six days RAM is not operational.  So I don't think neither of us is off in our assessments.  We're just talking about two totally different subtopics.