Tony Allegretti hired as Market Manager of the Riverside Arts Market

[TPC]

I rode my bike up there with some friends and I want to give a big thanks to BikeJax for the bike valet, really cool idea. Even with the bike valet I saw tons of bikes locked up in various spots and I was glad to see so many people decide to bike and walk rather then drive.

I arrived around 2pm and hung out for a little over an hour and it was packed. If I had to describe it to someone I would have called it a “craft fare” in all honestly.  Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it was pretty much what I expected, hand made jewelry, ceramics, and a few paintings thrown in.  In addition there was a variety of live entertainment, some tramps playing music for tips, a magician, and some live music by the water I didn’t get a good look at. Another thing I noticed was the amount of dogs people brought with them.

If the number of visitors stays consistent I think the city needs to run the trolley (decorated bus) to reduce some of the traffic.

[blizz01]

If the number of visitors stays consistent I think the city needs to run the trolley (decorated bus) to reduce some of the traffic.

Agreed - even if those day one numbers (40k +) were to level off to 1/3rd.

[stjr]

I have a suggestion for all the beer/wine lovers and haters to try and keep peace in the MJ family.  How about, RAM, being that is on a Saturday, staying open to like 10 PM or so.  During the day, to 4 PM, its alcohol free.  After 4 PM, it's later, and it changes up the entertainment and a few vendors so its more adult oriented, and beer and wine are served to the "Saturday night" types who can come downtown, to Riverside, or to RAM for dinner, art, and a romantic stroll along the river.

Can we do this and declare a truce?  Or, I can throw another log on the fire    Does Disney serve drinks in its theme parks? (You know they do at Sea World, it is, after all, owned by Anheuser Busch!)

Geeesh!  I thought we had a truce on this subject with the compromise I suggested!  How did I know I could kick start it all over again with the Disney question.  I did a Google search on "Disney and Alcohol" and had two million hits so I doubt anyone could say more here that hasn't been said somewhere else.  We could have shortened this discussion a lot sooner.  LOL.  Below is one site that seems to cover the question decently out of many.  Why don't we call a new truce on this subject and move on.  Otherwise, this could be come the new "Moon River" board. 

From LoveToKnow Themeparks at :  http://themeparks.lovetoknow.com/Alcohol_in_Amusement_Parks

Alcohol in Amusement Parks
If you’re wondering whether they sell alcohol in amusement parks, the answer depends on which amusement park you plan to attend . Some amusement parks do not serve any alcohol at all, while others do. The decision depends on the specific individual preferences of the theme park. There is no universal regulation regarding alcohol and amusement parks. That being said, the vast majority of theme parks do allow alcohol.

Most amusement parks sell alcohol.

Reasons Amusement Parks Sell Alcohol
Money is the main reason theme parks decide to sell alcohol. Alcohol is widely accepted in contemporary society, and the profits, especially at theme parks, can be enormous. For example, a six dollar bottle of wine can be divided into six glasses, sold for six dollars each. With soaring gas prices affecting overall attendance, theme parks are looking for new ways to increase revenue and margins. Alcohol is an easy way for theme parks to make a lot of money.

A survey of 165 tourist attractions in the United Sates was conducted between 2000 and 2005 by International Theme Park Services. The results showed the growing trend of alcohol being permitted in amusement parks. Forty-five percent of the attractions either began serving alcohol during this time, or expanded the number of places in the park where alcohol is permitted.

Parks that Serve Alcohol
Florida Aquarium in Tampa
Busch Gardens
Discovery Cove
Canada’s Wonderland
MGM Studios
Animal Kingdom
Epcot Center
California Adventure
Sea World Aquatica
Sea World San Diego
Universal Studios
Six Flags

Parks that Do Not Serve Alcohol
Walt Disney made it clear that he did not want his parks to serve alcohol. He felt that alcohol was not needed for families to enjoy themselves. Walt Disney World’s Magic Kingdom and Disney World have honored Walt Disney’s wishes by not offering alcohol. However, there are some other Disney theme parks which do allow alcohol.

Arguments for Banning Alcohol in Amusement Parks
Many people believe that alcohol should not be offered at family attractions. Watchdog groups believe that alcohol can interfere with family interactions. These groups argue that children who are exposed to alcohol are more likely to have a drinking problem when they grow older. Drunk driving is also a concern. Many parks such as Six Flags claim that inebriated individuals will be removed from the park. Yet enforcement of this regulation is very difficult. The fact that alcoholic beverages are so exorbitantly expensive in most parks does help to eliminate the number of inebriated individuals.

Bring Your Own Beer
Guests are not allowed to bring in any outside alcoholic beverages. Most parks also forbid admission to people who appear to be inebriated. Parks reserve the right to refuse service or admission to anyone. Outside nonalcoholic drinks and food are also usually not permitted into the park.

Summary
Alcohol is found in the vast majority of theme parks. If you are looking for a park that does not serve any alcohol, try Disneyland in California, or Walt Disney World in Orlando. There are usually designated areas where you will be able to find alcohol in theme parks. Even though alcohol is permitted in the park, often times it is only served in certain venues, so if you want to stay away from alcohol you can refrain from entering these venues. Other amusement parks have more liberal liquor laws and allow guests to walk around the park holding a beverage. Finding alcohol in amusement parks is easier than being able to select a park without alcohol. Though Disney stands by the wishes of Walt Disney, they lose millions and millions of dollars by banning alcohol. Though Disney is willing to take such a large hit in revenue, most other theme parks are not. In fact, without alcohol sales, many amusement parks might not be able to stay in business. Alcohol sales is big business, and theme parks will continue to provide the drinks that customers desire for the enormous profit they provide to the park.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

Don't want to throw any more fuel on the beer and wine debate, but on Saturday I noticed a lot of plastic water bottles thrown out in the trash cans with the regular trash, which kind of sucks for a venue billing itself as a green market and wonder if selling beer and wine would just add to the volume of trash heading to a landfill.  Come on Jacksonvillians, is recycling that difficult?  I did notice one or two cans labeled for recyclables only scattered here and there, but I'd have liked to have seen some type of brightly colored receptacle (blue or green?) right next to each and every trash can throughout RAM for plastic and glass recyclables.

THAT said, I personally would have liked to try a new Bold City brew or maybe some local hobbyist brewer's basement concoction.  A separate beer garden area sounds like a good idea to me, as long as it's micro-brew or local stuff--no Natty Lite, Pabst Blue Ribbon or other corporate beer swill! 

Liked sampling the wares from the artisanal goat cheese vendor from GA, and picked up some cheese, locally grown veggies, and really great olive tapenade; didn't see a baker or bread seller there which would have been nice.  (There's a niche that Riverside/Avondale needs to fill--I know there's Edgewood bakery and Einstein bagels nearby, but a little place that sells just quality fresh baked loaves of bread would be much appreciated in the neighborhood!)

My wife and I rode our bikes and locked them up on one of the many bike stands; I was heartened to see so many people chose to ride instead of drive; thought the bike valet was a great idea and will definitely try it next time.  Car traffic was kind of hellish for a Saturday though--riding home in the afternoon, we were almost run down by a regulation a-hole in a PT Cruiser: he beeped at us a couple times, I waved him around, and as he passed he yelled "Get out of the damn road!".  Before I could stop myself, I flicked him off as did my wife, which was kind of stupid since he was obviously ignorant and could possibly have been mentally unstable and/or armed.  Of course, he didn't stop to rumble.

Nice to see a bunch of dogs and their owners out enjoying themselves too.

I thought it was great start to RAM and look forward to seeing it evolve and grow.

[stephElf]

Its not the distance from Five Points, its whats along the distance that can embrace or severe connectivity.  Long term, we'll have to find ways to bridge the unwalkable and unpleasant gaps.  Perhaps a streetcar system that encourages infill development is the answer.

i'm not trying to be a wise guy.. what unpleasant spots are along the way? i rode my back from 5 points.. seemed pleasantly walkable to me... a lot more pleasant than all the bums you pass in broad daylight in say manhattan and seattle

[BridgeTroll]

Perhaps he meant for those who are not lucky enough to live within comfortable biking distance like 5 points and riverside...

[stephElf]

oh yea... unless you are in the immediate area you pretty much have to drive... you could bike from san marco and downtown...

I drove, parked far away and then biked...

[BridgeTroll]

See... thats what he meant!

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

I'm gonna say this. All of you AA members need to stop comparing RAM to a restaurant, Art Walk, hotel bar, baseball game, Jags game or anyplace else places that serve beer/wine. They are not RAM. They are not outside at 10am on a Saturday. They are not family friendly. They do not have things geared 100% towards kids.

I beg to differ that (some) restaurants, art walk, baseball games, and Jag games don't "have things geared 100% towards kids." Whether they are legitimately family friendly or not is subjective, but they do offer activities/products specifically for kids.

I'm personally ambivalent about the prospects of serving the beer and wine. I think it is a terrific idea to give local breweries and wineries some exposure at a festival like this. It would fit in very nicely in an environment like this. I'm only even talking about sampling beer/wine for purchase to take home. I wouldn't necessarily even expect to consume it on the premises. But I do also realize it COULD get out of hand. Just allowing alcohol somewhere opens the possibility of drunkenness and disorderly conduct. And it wouldn't make sense to sell without offering samples...and that could then lead to a slippery slope.

Anyway, I see some merits to both sides (although I really feel both parties have presented some arguments that are built on faulty reasoning) and I am hopeful that the beer garden idea, with its apparent implication of alcohol being confined to a specific location, will appease the most visitors.

I agree.  This is an ideal scenario.

[Steve]

i'm not trying to be a wise guy.. what unpleasant spots are along the way? i rode my back from 5 points.. seemed pleasantly walkable to me... a lot more pleasant than all the bums you pass in broad daylight in say manhattan and seattle

After you get under the bridge, you have a collection of office buildings that poorly address the street that are all completely dark on Saturday. 

People are much more willing to walk when the environment is vibrant.  I would hardly call the environment between the Fuller Warren and 5 Points Vibrant, save for the Cummer.

The walk to Downtown is much worse along Riverside Avenue, however you have the riverwalk which helps in that regard.  With that said, would it have been that awful to put a normal railroad crossing across FEC versus the giant hill that we decided to build?

[thelakelander]

Its not the distance from Five Points, its whats along the distance that can embrace or severe connectivity.  Long term, we'll have to find ways to bridge the unwalkable and unpleasant gaps.  Perhaps a streetcar system that encourages infill development is the answer.

i'm not trying to be a wise guy.. what unpleasant spots are along the way? i rode my back from 5 points.. seemed pleasantly walkable to me... a lot more pleasant than all the bums you pass in broad daylight in say manhattan and seattle

Bums don't really bother you when they blend into a vibrant urban landscape.  However, they do stand out more in environments designed for the movement and storage of cars.

Destination aside, what environment would you prefer to walk through while going from point A to point B?

Option A

One where a diverse amount of activity is not present at the pedestrian level.  Instead of buildings along sidewalks, the scene is dominated by vacant lots, surface parking lots, parking garages and buildings that turn their back to the street.










Option B

An area where the sidewalk becomes an interactive social scene.  Whether the use is commercial or residential, they embrace and welcome the pedestrian instead of the automobile or manicured lawns.














This is not an indictment against RAM and it really has nothing to do with the market.  This is an observation of what we must find a way to overcome if we want the core to become a place with a 24/7 environment.  This is why the suggestion of a streetcar system was made.  They are known to have the power to encourage compact infill development on the small underutilized parcels of land that plague urban Jacksonville. 

[Shwaz]

People are much more willing to walk when the environment is vibrant.  I would hardly call the environment between the Fuller Warren and 5 Points Vibrant, save for the Cummer.

The walk from the RAM to 5 points (via Riverside Ave.) is as vibrant as it gets. The Cummer, Womens Club, Garden Club, The Rowe House and Memorial Park are all landscaped beautifully and Riverside Ave. is canopied by oak trees.  

[stephElf]

People are much more willing to walk when the environment is vibrant.  I would hardly call the environment between the Fuller Warren and 5 Points Vibrant, save for the Cummer.

The walk from the RAM to 5 points (via Riverside Ave.) is as vibrant as it gets. The Cummer, Womens Club, Garden Club, The Rowe House and Memorial Park are all landscaped beautifully and Riverside Ave. is canopied by oak trees.  

exactly... that's where I'm at... it may not be savannah or greenville, SC - but I think the walk is pretty freaking nice.

maybe I am biased from living off Emerson & Phillips for 4+ years ... but I'll take it.

A street car might help with san marco and DT people... but people from other areas such as Mandarin (like myself) still have to drive somewhere... and the current walking set-up I highly doubt will deter a single riverside-er.

[thelakelander]

Of course it has some great anchors, but it could be better.  For every anchor on the stretch between the Memorial Park and the Fuller Warren, there's a parking lot.  Plus, Post between Riverside Ave. and Park is outright horrible.  On top of that, I'm sure no one wants to debate the vibrancy of Riverside, north of the Fuller Warren.  If we can fill in those surface parking areas, under utilized lots and get people on the sidewalks on a regular consistent basis, it will then be as vibrant as it can get.

[thelakelander]

Well Mandarin and even Phillips & Emerson are both really suburbs.  Neither was a part of the original pre consolidated city.  Anyway, my suggestion would be while the area is better than true suburban hellholes, don't settle.  Its got great bones.  Hopefully, things like RAM and Cummer's expansion, along with something like a streetcar system, will take the area (and the urban core) to the next level.

A street car might help with san marco and DT people... but people from other areas such as Mandarin (like myself) still have to drive somewhere... and the current walking set-up I highly doubt will deter a single riverside-er.

Btw, this is where an integrated transit system comes into play.  With commuter rail, you could hop on a train in Mandarin or Philips & Emerson, to downtown and transfer to a streetcar to access Five Points.  This way, you can leave your car in the garage.  In the meantime, the fixed transit investment in Five Points, serves as the catalyst to turn what you describe as vibrant, into vibrancy on steroids.