Working Group: Transit Issues and SPAR

[JaxByDefault]

BRT on Boulevard, competing commuter rail plans, ralis and trails vs. rails to trails, and urban connectivity through public transit. This is a working group for the tranist issues that concern Springfield and the transit plans that Springfielders would like to see SPAR support.

Same working group rules apply: keep to issues and be civil.

[JaxByDefault]

With the introduction of the BRT line on Boulevard, SPAR and SPR residents should ask JTA to get all or some parallel bus traffic moved off of Pearl. This does not create a significant hardship on bus riders and can be done at little cost to JTA.

See the MetroJacksonville article and comments here at http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/945/116/. 

Thoughts from those on Pearl?

[sheclown]

I, for one, would not like any bus stops moved off of Pearl.  The Pearl route and stops are very important for our guys at Home Away From Home who live on Pearl street and depend on the bus to get to work as very few of them drive.  I would imagine there are many in the neighborhood who need the bus service.  While walking a block or two may not seem like a big deal, it is a big deal when it is cold and dark outside. 

[Ocklawaha]

A simple signal controlled busway link, alongside the "S" line railroad rebuild, running between Moncrief and Main would do wonders to funnel traffic onto and off of the new BRT line. It would also open several doors to our future:

Refer to the maps in the MJ article:

1. Opens up a possible BRT line on Moncrief into the far NW of the City.

2. Opens up a possible link to Kings and hence New Kings into the far NW of the City.

3. Creates a cut-off for Panama Park/Phoenix/Dunn/Ocenway bus routes to move off of Main onto the busway.

4. Opens the opportunity for a multi-modal station at Boulvard and the new "S" railroad/BRT way.

Fanning out from such terminals as this, and a similar one at Gateway Mall and another at 21ST and the Railroad, it's easy to see how the longer bus routes could be reduced to local circulators with much more frequent headways - and cross the platform transfers to rail or BRT.

OCKLAWAHA

[strider]

Please remember that there are indeed a good number of people who reside in Springfield that need the buses for everyday transportation.  What may seem like a minor change in a bus route can be a major time issue for those who need those buses.  It isn't just about not having a bus stop at the corner of Pearl and 6th, for instance, but the domino effect that change may have that often hurts the most.

[thelakelander]

Another note that should be pointed out is that there is no rail vs. BRT argument along the North Corridor anymore.  JTA's new BRT route down Boulevard actually complements rail along the S-Line corridor.  However what really needs to be examined is how Springfield's commercial revitalization plans will fit in with JTA's plans.  For example, do most Springfield advocates even know the actual timeline of JTA's plans or planned station locations in the neighborhood for both systems?  Any planning of commercial strategies along 8th & Main should incorporate this information because they will ultimately affect travel and development patterns throughout the neighborhood. 

[JaxByDefault]

I agree that many use buses and that better bus service is a benefit for all. However, a 4 block span between bus routes (Main to Blvd.) is a fairly small area by most urban standards.

Is the most used in SPR on that route at 8th and Pearl? If so, it may be possible to run the bus up Blvd up to 8th then cut over (but the median there may pose a problem).

If the Pearl routes have stops on the residential blocks that are well used by the neighborhood, then that's certainly a perspective that both JTA and SPAR need to hear.

Lakelander's points are excellent. We all need to make sure that our neighborhood advocates are thinking long term.

[sheclown]

8th and Pearl is certainly an important stop. 

Geez.  It is tough enough for these lower income people to get and keep jobs in this economy.   For God's sakes, please don't mess with the bus stops and make it even more difficult to get to and from work. 

[downtownparks]

If buses can be replaced by something, why not? I would jump at an opportunity to see Springfield become a trolley car suburb again. If you had accessibility on 8th, Main, and either Pearl, Blvd, or Jefferson, you are always within a few blocks of a stop.

[sheclown]

Would trolleys travel like the buses? 

I will be honest with you.  I don't know that much about the bus lines, although I promise myself all of the time, to ride them and learn them.  They are such a life-line to those who don't drive.

I've been told that if you want to go to River City Mall from Joseph's Pizza on Main that you would have to travel all the way back down to the central station near FCCJ and then travel back up that way. 

Often times, you cannot get to "that place" from "here". 

My fear is that if the bus routes are messed with, things will just get more difficult. 

[downtownparks]

The idea is to make it easier, there by more usable for everyone, not just those who have to ride. If I could hop a streetcar with the family for a tree lighting at the landing, I would do it 100 times over. As it sits, I would never take the bus. Most people would drive, even from Springfield. Personally, I would sooner walk to the Skyway, than the bus.

[sheclown]

Why don't you want to use the bus?  How would the trolley be any different?

Is it a safety issue?  A cleanliness issue?  Are the buses too slow? 

How would the trolleys, essentially, be different from the buses?

Don't get me wrong.  I think they are cool.  I'm just trying to understand.

[thelakelander]

JTA's current system is totally unreliable.  This turns many residents who have an option of using mass transit or personal transit away.  Worldwide, most are attracted to mass transit modes with fixed routes because:

A. You know exactly where they are going to go.
B. You know exactly when they will arrive at each stop.
C. Most modes of transit with fixed routes are more comfortable.

[sheclown]

I know from listening to stories-- especially on the weekend, you can get left behind.  That is hardly comfortable.  So, it stands to reason, that the only ones who ride the buses, are those without any other option.  So another mass transit mode that is more reliable makes total sense.  As long as it is still able to be used to get to work places at a reasonable price.

We need to help people get to work, especially now, when jobs are so hard to come by.

[JaxByDefault]

A better mass transit system benefits everyone.

Fixed lines also spur long-term growth. Transit oriented and transit adjacent developments favor fixed routes. However, part of Jacksonville's overall transit strategy will need to include BRT to help connect some parts of the city to commuter rail lines. Both BRT and possible commuter rail plans are likely to touch Springfield's borders and affect neighborhood development. The time for advocacy on these types of issues is before the first dollar is spent on rerouting or road/rail improvements.

For a brief MetroJacksonville overview of BRT/rail issues and proposals in JAX:

How to Love BRT

Transit in Jacksonville: Let's Get Started!

Commuter Rail Study Update

Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

Commuter Rail Preliminary Study Locations

MetroJacksonville and JTA on the Same Page?