Rise Doro construction photos

[Jax_Developer]

Great questions Charles. Those two are the biggest victims here. I hope they are compensated through their own or Rise's insurance for the loss in revenue. I imagine that missing out on Super Bowl Sunday will be a big loss for them both.

My question for everyone is do you think Rise will try to rebuild when they receive their insurance claim? Assuming of course that the claim does not mandate rebuilding. Yes, I'm aware that Rise is currently saying they intend to rebuild, but nobody in their right mind would say, "we were having a hard time with the lease up and are not going to rebuild" before receiving the insurance claim. There is already wild speculation about the cause of the fire and a statement like that would only fan the flames.

Right that's my question. I'm not implying that they won't rebuild if indeed this was a freak accident. However, I'm skeptical that there isn't some lapse in the insurance coverage given what we 'kinda' know. Having a hard time with leasing only means the owners are in a much harder financial position, even prior to the final CO. If even one corner was cut, I feel like their claim could be impacted. I have to imagine that they have a rebuilding mandate, given the fact that they are leaving the foundation & the parking garage. I would be concerned if they don't frankly. Their other projects are doing quite well, why not feed more resources there and make 20-30% as an almost guarantee?

[jaxoNOLE]

This will be highly dependent on the specifics of the insurance coverages each party carries.

If Intuition and Manifest carry business interruption insurance that is properly endorsed with Civil Authority coverage, then they'd be entitled to compensation from their own policies because they are being denied access to their property by government order. Outside of that, if there hasn't been direct physical loss to their own premises as a result of the fire or suppression efforts, it's hard to imagine any other coverage of theirs facilitating a payment.

Seeking compensation from RISE is likely to be a drawn-out process, as liability is going to boil down to the cause of the fire and whether reasonable prevention/safety measures were in place. Even if they are compensated under their own insurance as I described above, Intuition/Manifest's insurers may subrogate against RISE if it's believed there's liability on their part. If business interruption insurance wasn't in place, the best they can probably hope for is a settlement offer from RISE's insurer to avoid litigation over ancillary aspects of the claim as compared to the real exposure -- the $60M building. A litigation outcome that hinges on allocating liability would take years and has no chance of delivering cashflow compensation fast enough to offset the loss of revenue. Any resident attorneys here could offer a far more informed opinion on that piece than I.

[CityLife]

^Looks like we have a graduate of the top ranked Risk Management program from FSU. Great info jaxoNOLE. Clearly going to be a complex and drawn-out process as you stated.

I hope the employees of Intuition and Manifest don't have to wait to long to receive any lost wages/compensation, as I imagine some of them are living paycheck to paycheck. Hopefully their insurer pays their claim out quickly, then subrogates against RISE.

[jaxlongtimer]

That building would have gone into foreclosure if it didn't secure 70% occupancy ish by the end of their lease up period. Typically 6-9 months. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's extremely difficult to look the other way here. The Station at San Marco is at 40% lease up rate right now according to their website, which makes sense given they have half of their units are available. The Station at San Marco only opened for leasing Q3-2023. Doro began their pre-leasing efforts Q3-2023 as well. You can argue they have less leases signed because it's not complete, but I'm not sure that's accurate.

Before the listings were taken down, the Doro was charging more PSF than EVERY apartment building downtown. The Station, Hendricks, Southerly, Vista, were all cheaper options than the RISE Doro. The Doro was arguably the most expensive apartment project, rents wise, in the entire urban area (excluding beaches). So when you look at the lease-up as of 1/28/2024 being at 8 units of 247 total units, it paints a bad picture. Do we really think they were going to secure another 40 leases before their grand opening? That's like 2 signed-leases per business day. They were on a pretty serious timeline, a timeline that involved a $60M foreclosure in almost any scenario other than them reducing rents by more than 20-30%. And if the debt was collateralized...

Furthermore, who were their expected retail tenants? I think these are all very reasonable questions to ask considering the insane timing of this entire event.

I don't want to say "I told you so" but.... from the first paragraph I started this thread with:

This looks to be one ugly building.  On par with prison designs.  Great views of the parking garage. I am still not sure who wants to pay up for living in this spot but adding the ugliness of this complex isn't going to help. Maybe this cheap design will yield cheap rents to get tenants.

Bad location and poor aesthetics don't make for a successful "premium rent" apartment property.  If they rebuild, they should seriously look at a new design for the building exteriors.

[Jax_Developer]

That building would have gone into foreclosure if it didn't secure 70% occupancy ish by the end of their lease up period. Typically 6-9 months. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's extremely difficult to look the other way here. The Station at San Marco is at 40% lease up rate right now according to their website, which makes sense given they have half of their units are available. The Station at San Marco only opened for leasing Q3-2023. Doro began their pre-leasing efforts Q3-2023 as well. You can argue they have less leases signed because it's not complete, but I'm not sure that's accurate.

Before the listings were taken down, the Doro was charging more PSF than EVERY apartment building downtown. The Station, Hendricks, Southerly, Vista, were all cheaper options than the RISE Doro. The Doro was arguably the most expensive apartment project, rents wise, in the entire urban area (excluding beaches). So when you look at the lease-up as of 1/28/2024 being at 8 units of 247 total units, it paints a bad picture. Do we really think they were going to secure another 40 leases before their grand opening? That's like 2 signed-leases per business day. They were on a pretty serious timeline, a timeline that involved a $60M foreclosure in almost any scenario other than them reducing rents by more than 20-30%. And if the debt was collateralized...

Furthermore, who were their expected retail tenants? I think these are all very reasonable questions to ask considering the insane timing of this entire event.

I don't want to say "I told you so" but.... from the first paragraph I started this thread with:

This looks to be one ugly building.  On par with prison designs.  Great views of the parking garage. I am still not sure who wants to pay up for living in this spot but adding the ugliness of this complex isn't going to help. Maybe this cheap design will yield cheap rents to get tenants.

Bad location and poor aesthetics don't make for a successful "premium rent" apartment property.  If they rebuild, they should seriously look at a new design for the building exteriors.

- Building will be demolished by early summer 2024
- Insurance & Owner will go back & forth (maybe even surrounding businesses) until the end of the year
- RISE will start construction again in the first half of 2025
- Building will take 1.5 years or so to rebuild
- Now the year is 2027

'Now' they will enjoy the spoils of the Four Seasons being completed. The Jags stadium "district" will be a finalized deal & in permitting/construction. The riverfront parks will be underway... Things start to look a lot more rosy wouldn't you say jax? Almost like what they were expecting to happen by the time they opened up but we Jacksonville'd them... lol.

[Snaketoz]

That is one fugly building.  Couldn't agree more with jaxlongtimer.  To me, it reeks of cheap.  Looks like it would look chintzy in a short time.  Even the signage looks like bargain basement.  There had to be a huge profit margin on this place.  This entire episode seems fishy.

[fieldafm]

The amount of rampant BS speculation on this thread needs to come to an end.

Doro was NOT having 'leasing issues' and risking foreclosure.   A little more than 100 of the units were going to be STRs. The available units available for long-term occupancy being opened by March weren't the remaining full inventory minus the STRs.

Since a new broker took over marketing of the retail spaces, the interest among potential retail tenants was actually pretty strong. They would have likely had two signed leases in place this year. 

It sucks that the building caught on fire. The developer and their builders risk policy holder are moving forward with rebuilding. There isn't some mass conspiracy perpetrated by shady private building inspectors (they carry the same liability as a public inspector), a desperate developer, and a hoodwinked fire marshal.  This isn't even remotely close to what happened at Berkman 2- the most important distinction being that no one lost their life at Doro.  Demo is going to take some time, and that really sucks for Intuition, Manifest... and the events scheduled over the next couple of months at the Arena and the Baseball Grounds (which all pretty much have a full slate of events scheduled through April).   

The speculation being paraded as expertise has become ridiculous.

[Jax_Developer]

The amount of rampant BS speculation on this thread needs to come to an end.

Doro was NOT having 'leasing issues' and risking foreclosure.   A little more than 100 of the units were going to be STRs. The available units available for long-term occupancy being opened by March weren't the remaining full inventory minus the STRs.

Since a new broker took over marketing of the retail spaces, the interest among potential retail tenants was actually pretty strong. They would have likely had two signed leases in place this year. 

It sucks that the building caught on fire. The developer and their builders risk policy holder are moving forward with rebuilding. There isn't some mass conspiracy perpetrated by shady private building inspectors (they carry the same liability as a public inspector), a desperate developer, and a hoodwinked fire marshal.  This isn't even remotely close to what happened at Berkman 2- the most important distinction being that no one lost their life at Doro.  Demo is going to take some time, and that really sucks for Intuition, Manifest... and the events scheduled over the next couple of months at the Arena and the Baseball Grounds (which all pretty much have a full slate of events scheduled through April).   

The speculation being paraded as expertise has become ridiculous.

STR's??? LOL. No point in elaborating any further there.

Nobody in here is claiming to be an expert. Nobody in here knows what 'actually' happened. The fact a $60M investment burned down a few days from a fire inspection. That leads to some questions. Nobody is saying arson. Myself & others are implying the possibility in a lapse in insurance coverage. The sheer expense of "experts" & "consultants" on these jobs 'should' prevent these issues once they are far enough along. It's not like this was a framed shell. Private inspectors are a non-issue here I agree.

Nonetheless, here are some "facts" for you:

- Permits were pulled 12/9/2020 (so by opening they would have been UC for over 30 months - CC is well into the Millions)
- They are owner/builders unlike virtually any other burned down building you could pull up for me
- RISE was the most expensive rent PSF (when advertised) of every apartment building we have in our urban area

For any developer, running 30+ month construction timeline, while also being the absolute top of the market is 100% crippling. Their monthly CC from not being at 70% occupancy would still nearly $100k. Not to mention a bank won't let you stabilize the debt. Never in my life have I heard/seen any large apartment building get financing with that many STR's. Demonstrates how dire of a situation they were in to even consider that as an option. Any private developer would laugh me out the room if that was my gameplan on something like this. I've been told I don't what I'm doing by doing a LOT less than something like that. Truly I hope that the STR story is misinformation.

[jaxlongtimer]

100 STR's sounds close to a suite/extended stay hotel type property.  Is that what everyone bargained for, including the City, with incentives?

[acme54321]

They've already got the southern face torn off.  Hopefully manifest and intuition can open sooner than later.

[thelakelander]

Glad to see them moving quick on this one.

[Steve]

Intuition will be back open tomorrow, according to their Twitter account.

Yea I know it's not Twitter anymore. But "X" is stupid.

[jcjohnpaint]

Nice to hear.

[thelakelander]

The developer of the Rise Doro apartment building is "very committed" to rebuilding the structure after it was heavily damaged by fire but is evaluating whether to redesign the project, said the chief executive of the Downtown Investment Authority.

DIA CEO Lori Boyer said she and her staff had met with developer Rise: A Real Estate Company and learned that it was examining whether to rebuild on the site using concrete and steel as opposed to wood framing.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/feb/09/dia-ceo-rise-considering-redesign-for-doro-apartment-rebuild/

[Charles Hunter]

It's too bad the building is in such bad shape they can't salvage appliances, furniture, and anything else not damaged by the fire and efforts to put it out.