Rise Doro construction photos

[thelakelander]

Not claiming to know anything, I'm literally just confused (and a little concerned) at how it was supposed to be occupancy ready that soon like you say fsu. That's crazy close all things considered.

Its quite possible, the local reporting about this incident has included some speculation as well. Reporters aren't construction experts. So unless the person writing the article has been inside the place and seen the construction for themselves, its all second hand information. As mentioned earlier, we'll (including JFRD) know more as time goes on.

[Jax_Developer]

I'm not claiming the stairs thing to be fact. I just saw it mentioned on an article and it was mentioned here. The specific language used was voids by the JFRD spokesperson. I can understand that the fire suppression system not being active is a big deal, but JFRD themselves claimed that they thought the fire was contained within 2.5 hrs of being onsite. 1 hr dividing walls add up when you have several units in every direction.

What doesn't make sense to me, is that there were supposed to be residents moving in "next week." So, was the building still "under construction" or "almost complete" because those are two very different conversations. Yes I know that these units do not all complete at once, but it's not like the main building systems are not all functional when a C.O. is granted. If the building was "almost complete" then the fact that this building burned like it did is honestly shocking. There shouldn't be a numerous amount of open voids & the voids that do remain don't have a massive cubic volume relative to the size of the space. Like JFRD claimed, the fire should have been contained in a few hours, with a partial building loss. Or, tenants were not moving in next week. Simple as that.

Was supposed to open (at least partially) on Thursday, specifically.

No idea about why certain parts weren't further along.

I thought that was an opening date when I read it. I looked it up and this article has Donna claiming March 1. (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/fire/2024/01/29/jacksonville-firefighters-battle-apartment-building-blaze/72392989007/)

That timeline makes more sense. Unfortunate timing. I think you are right Lake, seen a few variations of things now.

[fsu813]

^ having tenants moving in to live, and the building being open for staff, are two different things. It was going to be open, at least partially as you bolded, on Thursday. I don't build mixed use multifamily. Don't know what else to tell ya.

But I digress.... Moon River Pizza: discuss.

[Jax_Developer]

^ having tenants moving in to live, and the building being open for staff, are two different things. It was going to be open, at least partially as you bolded, on Thursday. I don't build mixed use multifamily. Don't know what else to tell ya.

But I digress.... Moon River Pizza: discuss.

Right, was thinking that tenants were moving in that fast but I got your point. The extra 6 weeks for tenants does mean a lot here.

[CityLife]

It's possible that they had an agreement with COJ/JFRD to be granted a Temporary CO (TCO) with strict conditions on what the building could be used for once the fire suppression test and all other life safety inspections were completed. I've managed a couple of building departments and virtually every large project is granted a TCO for limited use of the property once all life safety issues are resolved.

Speculation based on experience, but I would guess that Rise requested a TCO ASAP to open up internal offices and a leasing office/model units to show to prospective tenants in advance of the first official move in of tenants. I do agree with JaxDeveloper that it seems improbable that actual tenants would be moving in with so many incomplete inspections. If so, that seems reckless.

I doubt we ever get the full story though. Rise was using a private provider for inspections. This is totally legal, but it is well known in the development/construction industry that private providers often (not always) inspect buildings with less scrutiny than in house inspectors. It's extremely difficult to find competent building inspectors in Florida, so Building Departments are currently stretched very thin. Developers of large projects that have a steady flow of inspections prefer private providers because they can manage the workload and timing of inspections better, and also have more influence over them. This does often result in the cutting of corners. Especially when a developer is in a rush due to financing, pre-sales/leases, or contractual obligations.

Again, not saying any corners were cut, but IF they were, I doubt we would hear anything, as it would reflect poorly on COJ/JFRD.

[Gators312]

They were leasing for March 1st and appear to have a lot of availability. There are at least 46 units still available for March 1st, though it's possible they don't even have every possible unit listed as available on the website.

https://leasing.risedoro.com/jacksonville/rise-doro/conventional/

https://risedoro.com/siteplan/

This shows the availability better. Most of the units were still available.

Good find. I looked earlier and there was a lot more availability than the 46 I posted about, and that was also while offering free rent for 2 months with no application fees.

They've made the website dead, with every page thanking JFRD for the fire response.

Question for those who know the luxury apartment rental market.

Do you typically see properties valued at $263k per door offering incentives such as no application fee and free two months of rent?   The only recent data I could find was on Jax Daily Record that Avere Southside Quarter just sold for $242k per door reporting 90% occupancy.

[Jax_Developer]

In any market, Tribeca or East New York, you will see incentives like you mentioned when there is an oversupply of rentals in that submarket. Not unusual for luxury apartments to do that.

[jaxoNOLE]

Slightly more detail surrounding the reported occupancy scheduled for this week:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/31/rise-doro-was-set-to-open-this-weekend-to-residents-but-not-all-of-its-permits-were-in-place/

For some sources who spoke to News4JAX, the idea that the complex was set to open at all was a surprise. It had not received what is called a "certificate of use or occupancy." That certificate means it meets zoning ordinances, building codes and fire prevention codes.

Sources told News4JAX RISE Doro was to get that final fire inspection this week.

...

Across the river in San Marco, The Station at San Marco apartment complex is beginning to lease. It's similar to RISE Doro.

The Station has a certificate of occupancy for half of its building. On the other side of the complex, it's still doing construction but it has been doing testing and owners expect to get the certificate for occupancy shortly.

So, maybe it's possible a portion of the building was more complete and could have been suitable to occupy, while in other portions stairwells and fire breaks were yet to be completed? Nevertheless, a failed fire inspection sounds like it would've delayed occupancy.

[CityLife]

I reached out to a former Building Official of mine, who has a lot of experience with mid and high rise multi-family projects. His mind was blown when I told him that COJ was apparently going to grant a TCO for the first residents to move in so close to the final fire suppression inspection. One, it pressures the inspectors to let something slide when it is 50/50 and two it just does not give enough time to button up any other outstanding issues. I won't share his theories on what actually went down because it's speculation, but he has a lot of skepticism about the fire.

I know some with connections to the Mayor's office read and post here. He and I both recommend reaching out to the Building Officials Association of Florida (BOAF) for an independent review of COJ/JFRD's permitting and inspection process. They should be able to provide an informal review of the process and make recommendations on what can be improved in the future. If not that, then hire an independent Building Official to review the process.   

[Jax_Developer]

Slightly more detail surrounding the reported occupancy scheduled for this week:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/31/rise-doro-was-set-to-open-this-weekend-to-residents-but-not-all-of-its-permits-were-in-place/

For some sources who spoke to News4JAX, the idea that the complex was set to open at all was a surprise. It had not received what is called a "certificate of use or occupancy." That certificate means it meets zoning ordinances, building codes and fire prevention codes.

Sources told News4JAX RISE Doro was to get that final fire inspection this week.

...

Across the river in San Marco, The Station at San Marco apartment complex is beginning to lease. It's similar to RISE Doro.

The Station has a certificate of occupancy for half of its building. On the other side of the complex, it's still doing construction but it has been doing testing and owners expect to get the certificate for occupancy shortly.

So, maybe it's possible a portion of the building was more complete and could have been suitable to occupy, while in other portions stairwells and fire breaks were yet to be completed? Nevertheless, a failed fire inspection sounds like it would've delayed occupancy.

Almost 100% certainty that was their plan as well. If you look at the permits, there are roughly 1/3 of the units with finalized electrical permits. That typically means the units mechanicals are completed. So part of the building was 100% further along than the rest.

That building would have gone into foreclosure if it didn't secure 70% occupancy ish by the end of their lease up period. Typically 6-9 months. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's extremely difficult to look the other way here. The Station at San Marco is at 40% lease up rate right now according to their website, which makes sense given they have half of their units are available. The Station at San Marco only opened for leasing Q3-2023. Doro began their pre-leasing efforts Q3-2023 as well. You can argue they have less leases signed because it's not complete, but I'm not sure that's accurate.

Before the listings were taken down, the Doro was charging more PSF than EVERY apartment building downtown. The Station, Hendricks, Southerly, Vista, were all cheaper options than the RISE Doro. The Doro was arguably the most expensive apartment project, rents wise, in the entire urban area (excluding beaches). So when you look at the lease-up as of 1/28/2024 being at 8 units of 247 total units, it paints a bad picture. Do we really think they were going to secure another 40 leases before their grand opening? That's like 2 signed-leases per business day. They were on a pretty serious timeline, a timeline that involved a $60M foreclosure in almost any scenario other than them reducing rents by more than 20-30%. And if the debt was collateralized...

Furthermore, who were their expected retail tenants? I think these are all very reasonable questions to ask considering the insane timing of this entire event.

[Josh]

Could the "first occupants" just be whoever was going to run the rooftop bar and pool area? I can see that space opening up before residential tenants move in.

[CityLife]

Could the "first occupants" just be whoever was going to run the rooftop bar and pool area? I can see that space opening up before residential tenants move in.

"We had eight residents who were due to move in this coming weekend. We've contacted each of them as [Jacksonville Mayor Donna] Deegan said. Most families have been offered places at RISE properties throughout the greater Jacksonville community, and some took us up on that already," said owner Greg Blais.

[Charles Hunter]

I think I heard a news report say that demolition will take a few weeks. I can't find the article online, and don't remember the number of weeks, but it was more than 3 or 4 I'm sure. Intuition Ale Works has several music events scheduled throughout February. Obviously, these will not take place. Plus their regular business during the closure (with assumed spikes for events in the sports complex) I would assume Intuition will seek compensation from the Rise insurance carrier. Does Intuition - and perhaps the performers - have a good chance of recouping their losses? Same thing for Manifest Distillery, and the "offices" (what is in that building?) across APR.

And, if some of the speculation related here is true - that there might be something that would cause the insurance company to deny or reduce the claim - where will these businesses be?

[CityLife]

Great questions Charles. Those two are the biggest victims here. I hope they are compensated through their own or Rise's insurance for the loss in revenue. I imagine that missing out on Super Bowl Sunday will be a big loss for them both.

My question for everyone is do you think Rise will try to rebuild when they receive their insurance claim? Assuming of course that the claim does not mandate rebuilding. Yes, I'm aware that Rise is currently saying they intend to rebuild, but nobody in their right mind would say, "we were having a hard time with the lease up and are not going to rebuild" before receiving the insurance claim. There is already wild speculation about the cause of the fire and a statement like that would only fan the flames.

[Josh]

Could the "first occupants" just be whoever was going to run the rooftop bar and pool area? I can see that space opening up before residential tenants move in.

"We had eight residents who were due to move in this coming weekend. We've contacted each of them as [Jacksonville Mayor Donna] Deegan said. Most families have been offered places at RISE properties throughout the greater Jacksonville community, and some took us up on that already," said owner Greg Blais.

Ah, missed that tidbit.

Great questions Charles. Those two are the biggest victims here. I hope they are compensated through their own or Rise's insurance for the loss in revenue. I imagine that missing out on Super Bowl Sunday will be a big loss for them both.

My question for everyone is do you think Rise will try to rebuild when they receive their insurance claim? Assuming of course that the claim does not mandate rebuilding. Yes, I'm aware that Rise is currently saying they intend to rebuild, but nobody in their right mind would say, "we were having a hard time with the lease up and are not going to rebuild" before receiving the insurance claim. There is already wild speculation about the cause of the fire and a statement like that would only fan the flames.

Intuition has already moved their annual Underdark release party back a few weeks, and will likely have to move it back again since I'd bet that building will still be standing 2/17. That's their biggest annual event from my perspective.

It's all a huge mess, and given my view as a pessimist, the Doro parcel is going to remain an empty lot for quite a few years. I feel like the developers (along with everyone who has opened a small business in the urban core in the last several years) thought the city would have made more progress downtown by now. We're still talking about the Trio, Lenny's Lawn, etc.