Councilman Carlucci proposes urban core spending boost

[thelakelander]

It is and has been the go to reasoning used to raze most of the city for the last fifty years. It's why parts of downtown look like this:



We'd be better off saving the demo money spent and having vacant buildings instead.

[tufsu1]

^ that picture is misleading - there are too many buildings in the image

[bl8jaxnative]

It is and has been the go to reasoning used to raze most of the city for the last fifty years. It's why parts of downtown look like this:



We'd be better off saving the demo money spent and having vacant buildings instead.

How much money did Jacksonville spend to demo that building?

ZERO.


How much money did Jacksonville spend to save that building? 

ZERO.

What difference does it make to the community?

ZERO.

I'm not saying there ain't good things about having some nice old things.   But you're going to have to persuade the people of the city that it's needed.   

I suspect - and maybe I'm wrong - that most people in Jacksonville would rather see a million put into removing the trap houses plaguing their neighborhood than a million into yet another luxury apartment project they'll never be able to afford.

[thelakelander]

We'd be better off saving the demo money spent and having vacant buildings instead.

How much money did Jacksonville spend to demo that building?

ZERO.

Zero on that particular property, but a ton on the six blocks that make up the courthouse site in the same picture and a ton on the various other vacant lots surrounding that one building, with the wholesale razing the neighborhood in the 1990s. Downtown is more than one piece a property. You got to look at the bigger picture and also factor in the impact of lost economic opportunity.

What difference does it make to the community?

ZERO.

This is a pretty inaccurate and horrible position to take with just about any historic building still standing in LaVilla. These places hold tons of historic, cultural and sentimental value to former residents and patrons of these properties. My phone and emails are blowing up from various people and groups trying to figure out how to save and reuse what's left.

I'm not saying there ain't good things about having some nice old things.   But you're going to have to persuade the people of the city that it's needed.

No need to persuade the people of Jacksonville. It's more of an issue of empowering a racially and economically disenfranchised community and having leadership in place that actually gives a damn to modify policies that stimulate change.   

I suspect - and maybe I'm wrong - that most people in Jacksonville would rather see a million put into removing the trap houses plaguing their neighborhood than a million into yet another luxury apartment project they'll never be able to afford.

Most in the historic disenfranchised neighborhoods value adapative reuse and revitalization, as opposed to having overgrown blighted vacant lots or being displaced. Preservation and adaptive reuse are key potential solutions for not having your importance and ancestral history erased from existence by a group of people who simply don't understand but are privileged enough to have a seat at the decision making table to decide your own neighborhood's future.

[Florida Power And Light]

Matt's Dad was instrumental in First Coast Outer Beltway ( then referred to as Brannon Chaffee).
Yea, probably a time to turn Inward.

[bl8jaxnative]

Most in the historic disenfranchised neighborhoods value adapative reuse and revitalization, as opposed to having overgrown blighted vacant lots or being displaced

What are you going on about?   No one on the eastside cares that the kartouche was overgrown.  They want a park with a playground near their house.

And blighted?  Your drunk on your own kool aid.  A building like Kartouche is the very defnition of blighted.  There's a ton of literature of the psychological effects of that sort of blight, the vacant houses, the trash, the trap houses, the homeless camps. 

You just dont' like their being empty lots downtown. So you scrape up some words off the floor and start tossing them around. 

Downtown is overrated.

What matters is ending the dealing that goes on at Union & APR.  That's why, after all, those people coming out of church got shot.  The shitbags are idiots and they were fighting.  And that corner _ALWAYS_ has someone dealing there.

What makes an immediate difference would be to deal with this abandoned house on the left, the one where people like to hang out and shoot up.

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=30.33838333333334&lng=-81.63876944444445&z=18.661849909377597&pKey=4932rtEYHJiy1yzlydH8Fw&focus=photo&x=0.3516088460293417&y=0.6681828074056414&zoom=0.8653553863656538



That's what matters.  Whether or not some 1980s indoor shopping mall designed to look like Trump's orange hemorrhoid ring was demolished... THEY DO NOT CARE.


To be blunt, you sound like the elite.    Ya got something you like and will manufacture some "reasons" for it.  And you'll ignore what people actually value ___THE MOST ___.  You're willing to stand up and claim that people are worried about preserving some old building more than stopping the killing?


Violence causes poverty.

Preserving history is a luxury.  We need to sort out the open drug markets and violence to be able to build the wealth so we cna preserve things on scale.  Until then we need to focus those efforts on things that are most important. 

[thelakelander]

Most in the historic disenfranchised neighborhoods value adapative reuse and revitalization, as opposed to having overgrown blighted vacant lots or being displaced

What are you going on about?   No one on the eastside cares that the kartouche was overgrown.  They want a park with a playground near their house.

Lol, if you only knew what Eastsiders want. Over the last 24 hours, I've taken phone calls, responded to emails for future meetings and moderated a virtual panel discussion about race with multiple Eastsiders. The common narrative from all of them is that they are interested in preserving the heritage, history, and culture of their neighborhood and seeing revitalization happen without them being displaced. I've taken similar calls and emails from various residents in Mixontown, LaVilla, Durkeeville and Moncrief over the last month, desiring the same thing. So what I'm sharing here, is exactly what I've been told by residents in these communities......They value adaptive reuse and revitalization, as opposed to having blighted vacant lots or being displaced. Since I'm actually on the ground with this particular topic and not just debating the merits online, the rest isn't worth a detailed response.

[vicupstate]

Springfield would be multiple square miles of nothing but vacant lots if bl8jaxnative had been in control of it 30 years ago.   

[marcuscnelson]

Violence causes poverty.

Preserving history is a luxury.  We need to sort out the open drug markets and violence to be able to build the wealth so we cna preserve things on scale.  Until then we need to focus those efforts on things that are most important.

Pretty sure this is backwards. People being in economic despair with no end in sight begets violence. If people have economic opportunity and stability, the overwhelming majority won't want to commit violence. Why deal drugs if your day job pays you well enough? Why go gangbanging when your home life is stable enough and your parents attentive enough to focus you on school? When you provide a community with the ability to grow and improve itself, most people will lose the incentive for drugs and violence. Leaving them on the urban equivalent of desert islands with no hope, no history, and armies of police roaming the streets will only make things worse, as we should all be able to see right now.

[Steve]

Preserving history is a luxury.  We need to sort out the open drug markets and violence to be able to build the wealth so we cna preserve things on scale.  Until then we need to focus those efforts on things that are most important. 

Right now on the personnel side of the COJ budget, $.50 of every $1 goes to JSO. Another $.25 of that same dollar goes to JFRD. Said differently, after spending 75% of the COJ budget on employees, we've staffed JSO and JFRD. The FY21 Budget Book is on coj.net if you'd like to validate this.

Something tells me just throwing money at a problem isn't going to help it, and perhaps working to revitalize a neighborhood is a far better option. Vacant lots as it turns out doesn't really fix the neighborhood.

[Bill Hoff]

Springfield would be multiple square miles of nothing but vacant lots if bl8jaxnative had been in control of it 30 years ago.   

Yea, but think of what it would be now if that had happened: we'd have Argyle Forest directly adjacent to Downtown, instead of way out in the boonies. How cool would that be!

What might have been, what might have been . . .

[Tacachale]

Most in the historic disenfranchised neighborhoods value adapative reuse and revitalization, as opposed to having overgrown blighted vacant lots or being displaced

What are you going on about?   No one on the eastside cares that the kartouche was overgrown.  They want a park with a playground near their house.

Lol, if you only knew what Eastsiders want. Over the last 24 hours, I've taken phone calls, responded to emails for future meetings and moderated a virtual panel discussion about race with multiple Eastsiders. The common narrative from all of them is that they are interested in preserving the heritage, history, and culture of their neighborhood and seeing revitalization happen without them being displaced. I've taken similar calls and emails from various residents in Mixontown, LaVilla, Durkeeville and Moncrief over the last month, desiring the same thing. So what I'm sharing here, is exactly what I've been told by residents in these communities......They value adaptive reuse and revitalization, as opposed to having blighted vacant lots or being displaced. Since I'm actually on the ground with this particular topic and not just debating the merits online, the rest isn't worth a detailed response.

Some people just need to quit while they're very far behind.