Lori Boyer floats alternate site for convention center

[Kerry]

That would be one of the primary points of adding on to the Hyatt. It is Jax's convention center hotel that it provided millions in subsidies for two decades ago. Adding to it, builds off previous public investment and places guests in an area where shops, restaurants, bars and attractions can be within logical walking distance. By reducing convention center costs, you free up money to spend on other needs.

It would be cheaper to build a new convention center AND a smaller convention hotel at the PO parking lot than it would to build exhibit halls in the heart of downtown.  A 1000 room hotel was so over-sized for Jax whomever came up with that should be kicked in the nuts.  A Jax convention hotel would require about 350 to 400 rooms - and probably closer to the 350 side.

Jax should target either a large Tier IV or a small Tier III center.  We can't compete with South Florida, Tampa, Orlando, Disney, Savannah, Charleston, or Atlanta - but we could do well against Mobile and Daytona.

[thelakelander]

No it would not. Where the exhibition hall would go is already dirt. Plus, how would a new convention center, which would include an exhibition hall, be cheaper? That doesn't make much sense on the surface.

[Kerry]

No it would not. Where the exhibition hall would go is already dirt. Plus, how would a new convention center, which would include an exhibition hall, be cheaper? That doesn't make much sense on the surface.

Once the City finds out how much it cost and how logistically challenging it is to function there the idea will die on the vine.  For example, where exactly would you stage 10 semis near the courthouse location, let alone unload them?  Which side of a downtown center do you want the loading docks and dumpsters on?  What if it turns out a Jax convention center is a huge success, where do you expand to?

[Tacachale]

Haha, leave it to Kerry to invent new ways to be wrong.

[thelakelander]

Designing a box on box shaped site doesn't have to be rocket science. The loading docks are already on Market. Expand them. If they put in a grocery, it would need the same. Also not worried about expanding 30 years from now. An exhibition hall on the back of the Hyatt is a real solution that can be implemented now and on the cheap. Make a vibrant downtown first and we'll deal with the bigger box during our grandkid's generation at the shipyards or Daniels Building site.

[Kerry]

Haha, leave it to Kerry to invent new ways to be wrong.

We'll see.

[Tacachale]

Designing a box on box shaped site doesn't have to be rocket science. The loading docks are already on Market. Expand them. If they put in a grocery, it would need the same. Also not worried about expanding 30 years from now. An exhibition hall on the back of the Hyatt is a real solution that can be implemented now and on the cheap. Make a vibrant downtown first and we'll deal with the bigger box during our grandkid's generation at the shipyards or Daniels Building site.

Feels like they're thinking in the right direction but going overboard with stuff that could be prohibitively expensive or difficult. If the space is there on the city hall annex space that feels like the easier solution.

[Charles Hunter]

Designing a box on box shaped site doesn't have to be rocket science. The loading docks are already on Market. Expand them. If they put in a grocery, it would need the same. Also not worried about expanding 30 years from now. An exhibition hall on the back of the Hyatt is a real solution that can be implemented now and on the cheap. Make a vibrant downtown first and we'll deal with the bigger box during our grandkid's generation at the shipyards or Daniels Building site.

Feels like they're thinking in the right direction but going overboard with stuff that could be prohibitively expensive or difficult. If the space is there on the city hall annex space that feels like the easier solution.

"It's easier here!"

[thelakelander]

Designing a box on box shaped site doesn't have to be rocket science. The loading docks are already on Market. Expand them. If they put in a grocery, it would need the same. Also not worried about expanding 30 years from now. An exhibition hall on the back of the Hyatt is a real solution that can be implemented now and on the cheap. Make a vibrant downtown first and we'll deal with the bigger box during our grandkid's generation at the shipyards or Daniels Building site.

Feels like they're thinking in the right direction but going overboard with stuff that could be prohibitively expensive or difficult. If the space is there on the city hall annex space that feels like the easier solution.

I get the gist that they are debating the merits of a 100% new and supersized convention center complex and not necessarily viewing the addition to the Hyatt, combined with the Hyatt's existing meeting facilities as also being a convention center. It reminds me of the JTA Brooklyn Skyway thing. For some reason we never consider no-frills solutions from the start. Instead, we come up with things we'll never have the money to pay for, ultimately doing nothing and missing economic cycles in the process.

As for this site, here is the old civil council sketch from the Alvin Brown days:




Here's how it would look with the hotel and surrounding area:

[CityLife]

^That's seemingly easy to pull off site design wise. I also think the idea Boyer is supporting on the combined Landing Parking lot/Hyatt parking garage site is potentially feasible as well. If attempting to build an exhibit hall into or on top of the existing garage, you could bring trucks up Newnan, convert Coastline Drive to one way heading west and loop them around back towards Independent Drive. It would likely require eliminating the Independent Drive off ramp from Main Street and ramping up and down to the loading zone. Or you could even just close the ramp to all traffic (except delivery trucks) and take the trucks directly to the loading zone from there. This route would also preserve the Landing surface lot for future development, though it's a bit constrained.

Or you can build the exhibit hall directly on top of the Landing surface lot, make the loading zone between existing garage and new building (with walkover above) and pretty much take the same route just mentioned above. You simply have to eliminate the Independent Drive off ramp, so trucks can get directly out.

I'm sure a good design team could put together multiple design solutions, rather than taking the path of least resistance (no shot at you Tacachale). Having the exhibit hall/conference center at the Hyatt Garage or Landing Parking Lot site would give Jax an advantage that not all peers have, and that is water front views from the convention center. That is something you wouldn't get at PO site or the old city hall. It would also create an opportunity for more street level activity on the old City hall site and the potential for a true entertainment district.

[Kerry]

Just build a box?  Are you wanting any street/sidewalk interaction with this box?

This seems like a good time to post this Ted Talk about this very subject.
https://youtu.be/Q1ZeXnmDZMQ

[Steve]

I actually think working with Spandrel in the short term and Boyer's thoughts in the longer term COULD work. If you combined the Hyatt Garage and the Spandrel site, you'd like get close to 300k SqFt of space, though not contiguous. But, you'd have a "north" center at 100k then a west center at almost 200k. The advantage here is you could do the Spandrel Partnership now, and if you wanted to, leave the landing parking lot as parking and future expansion.

Long Term, if this thing takes off, you could also expand and combine on the block to the north. This wouldn't be cheap as there's a JEA facility there, and there are two historic buildings there. But, if we're really in the position where we are bursting at the seams with 300k of Exhibit space, then that's a good issue to have.

[thelakelander]

Just build a box?  Are you wanting any street/sidewalk interaction with this box?

This seems like a good time to post this Ted Talk about this very subject.
https://youtu.be/Q1ZeXnmDZMQ

I get the impression you're not fully reading other's comments or reading the articles and links attached to this particular subject. The discussion has been about a mixed use project since at least the mid 2000s. The Hyatt's meeting space isn't on ground level. So the same way it currently has ground level restaurants, lobby, etc. below (or above) its meeting floor, could also be carried out with an expansion.

[Kerry]

And I think you are seriously underestimating the cost to do that.  And surely you do think the Hyatt has curb appeal.

[thelakelander]

Whatever the costs, it's cheaper than building something twice the size from scratch and then attempting to build or subsidize everything else needed to surround it. Speaking from the experience of being involved in hosting a state conference for roughly 800 people in DT Jax, Hyatt already has more curb appeal than the Prime Osborn. It is more centrally located, has hotel rooms, dining, a much larger grand ballroom and is on the river. However, it doesn't have the exhibition space for larger events. If Spandrel is saying they'll partner on a mixed use expansion, it's definitely worth considering because the clustering resolves several issues negatively impacting the Northbank, sooner rather than later.