Jaguars New Stadium?

[Kerry]

Do the rest of the cities in Florida have these "independent agencies" created by the State?

[vicupstate]

Do the rest of the cities in Florida have these "independent agencies" created by the State?

I think most or all of them were created as part of Consolidation The state had to pass new laws for Consolidation to even take place and likely directly included provisions for these agencies. 

[Steve]

That I'm not sure of. My feeling is the agencies are a mixed bag of efficiency. I think JAA operates extremely well. I think JTA is better now than they were under Blaylock but still not amazing. JEA's really unimpressed me of late. JAXPORT I don't understand enough about to make an educated comment. I think I'm missing someone....

Anyway, now that I completely steered this off topic.....

Back to talking about the Jags new stadium!

[Charles Hunter]

From the JTA website: https://www.jtafla.com/about-jta/jta-history/
JTA was created as the Jacksonville Expressway Authority in 1955 by the Florida Legislature to build an expressway system funded primarily by tolls on 2 bridges: Fuller Warren and Mathews. The Expressway Authority could also build feeder roads to the expressway system, and these include several local arterial roads, now on the state road system.  The bridge over Trout River, on what would become I-95, was built in 1957.  The Hart followed in 1969. In 1971 the Florida Legislature added mass transit responsibilities, and changed the name to the Jacksonville Transportation Authority. In December of 1971, the JTA purchased the assets of the Jacksonville Coach Company, and began providing bus service.
Members of the JTA Board include 3 appointed by the Governor (confirmed by the Legislature), 3 appointed by the Mayor (confirmed by City Council), and the District Secretary of the Florida DOT.

[Kerry]

Maybe the bigger question is, is Jacksonville structurally capable of thriving in 21st century America while be governed by 1950/60s laws.  I can't think of any other city subject to this much State control.  Maybe the legacy of consolidation is how much local control had to given up to achieve it and self-determination abandoned.

No wonder the City focuses so heavily on the Jags - it seems to be all the City is responsible for.

[Steve]

Maybe the bigger question is, is Jacksonville structurally capable of thriving in 21st century America while be governed by 1950/60s laws.  I can't think of any other city subject to this much State control.  Maybe the legacy of consolidation is how much local control had to given up to achieve it and self-determination abandoned.

No wonder the City focuses so heavily on the Jags - it seems to be all the City is responsible for.

New York City's transit authority is a state agency. While not an org most would aspire to emulate, I'm
Not sure the fact that the Governor has ultimate control is holding them back.

[marcuscnelson]

Anyway, now that I completely steered this off topic.....

Back to talking about the Jags new stadium!

Not much to talk about, when it's obvious they're not getting a brand spanking new stadium no matter what. Best that can probably be done is another rebuild like the Gator Bowl to Jax Municipal. More realistic is a big renovation that adds some features from other stadiums and maybe cements it as the "cornerstone" of Khan's Lot J + Shipyards project.

[marcuscnelson]

Maybe the bigger question is, is Jacksonville structurally capable of thriving in 21st century America while be governed by 1950/60s laws.  I can't think of any other city subject to this much State control.  Maybe the legacy of consolidation is how much local control had to given up to achieve it and self-determination abandoned.

No wonder the City focuses so heavily on the Jags - it seems to be all the City is responsible for.

New York City's transit authority is a state agency. While not an org most would aspire to emulate, I'm
Not sure the fact that the Governor has ultimate control is holding them back.

I think you're giving JTA a lot more flack than they deserve for the wrong reasons. If they deserve flack for anything, it's this dogged insistence on the self driving clown cars that have no evidence of working and given the design proposals we do have, would cost more than building anything that's already proven. I suppose their failure to make a case for any other new project integrating their plans is a problem too, but that leads back to what I already said.

[Kerry]

I don't think the Jags are going to be happy with some upgrades.  I think they sent some feelers out before they spend any real money on Lot J.

[marcuscnelson]

I don't know where they'd think the kind of money to build a new billion-dollar stadium is going to come from.

[JBTripper]

I don't think the Jags are going to be happy with some upgrades.  I think they sent some feelers out before they spend any real money on Lot J.

What gives you that impression? Are you suggesting that construction on Lot J is on hold until the Jaguars determine if a new stadium will be built on that site? Less than two years after the latest in a series of $180 million in upgrades to the existing facility?

"I would think that in this marketplace the first thing we would look at is a refurbishment of the existing stadium," Lamping said.

"That has been done successfully as well," he said, referring to facilities in Chicago, Kansas City, Green Bay, Miami and New Orleans where teams and municipalities have funded more than $300 million worth of upgrades since 1995.

To me, it sounds like the Jaguars will continue to explore further upgrades of the existing facility.

[KenFSU]

Are you suggesting that construction on Lot J is on hold until the Jaguars determine if a new stadium will be built on that site? Less than two years after the latest in a series of $180 million in upgrades to the existing facility?

Lot J doesn't make sense without an entire sports complex - stadium, arena, amphitheater, baseball grounds - feeding into it.

There's no universe where the Jags demand a new stadium in the next 20 years, and no universe where they build anywhere other than the sports complex.

They've invested hundreds of millions into the existing stadium, and Lamping has already hinted at what the next set of very expensive upgrades will look like (wider concourses, more amenities, cover from the elements). They're not just going to tear everything down, play a season elsewhere, and rebuild a brand new stadium.

Lamping has also made it very clear that, economically, the Jags wouldn't necessarily gain that much from a new stadium relative other franchises because our market size and corporate community isn't exactly being underserved by TIAA Bank Fileld.

The only scenario where I could see the Jags pressing for a new stadium in the next 15 years minimum would be if the city were to find itself with a massive economic windfall from a JEA sale. But even then, the Jags might be better off pushing for incentives for secondary revenue streams at the Shipyards and surrounding area than building a replacement stadium.

[Kerry]

Well certainly the Jags have started walking back their comments about needing a new stadium.

Lamping quote from https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/future-of-aging-stadium-a-concern-for-the-jaguars

"There's no question that TIAA Bank Field has aged well," he said. "But at some point in time, there's going to have to be a stadium solution."

Serious conversations about rebuilding or refurbishing TIAA Bank Field aren't likely this year, he said, but that doesn't mean the team isn't having internal conversations.

"If we don't start thinking about it, we'll wake up one day and have a stadium that's not meeting the needs of the fans or the community," he said.

Now the Jags are saying that comment was related to getting the Super Bowl back.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/jaguars-release-statement-on-vps-comments-about-new-stadium-major-upgrades/77-baf34dff-79de-4094-bbc1-af3353f2737c

"According to the Jaguars, Lamping's comments were made in response to a question about whether or not Jacksonville would ever be awarded a Super Bowl."

So I guess we can only speculate about what is really going on at the top.

1.  Lamping misspoke and instead of just saying that, the team tried some BS redirect.  Clearly he wasn't talking about the Super Bowl in the original quote.
2.  The team really did want a new stadium and some local leader told them to walk that comment back - it isn't happening.
3.  The team does want a new stadium but didn't mean to let it slip out now.

Finally, the whole term 'Stadium solution" has been used in other cities over the last couple of years (all requests for new stadiums).  This comment is the first I have heard that Jax even needed a 'stadium solution'.

[vicupstate]

I don't know where they'd think the kind of money to build a new billion-dollar stadium is going to come from.

Mexico?

[Kerry]

I don't think the Jags are going to be happy with some upgrades.  I think they sent some feelers out before they spend any real money on Lot J.

What gives you that impression? Are you suggesting that construction on Lot J is on hold until the Jaguars determine if a new stadium will be built on that site? Less than two years after the latest in a series of $180 million in upgrades to the existing facility?

Yes - I think exactly that.  I also think their timing and financing got all screwed up when the Wembley deal feel through and they're still trying to adjust.