Brooklyn Marriott Has Design Issues on All Sides

[thelakelander]

Also, Residence Inns typically include a space in the lobby where breakfast and happy hour is served to hotel guests daily. Without knowing the building's floor plan, there could be opportunity for this space to face the corner of Price and Magnolia with a courtyard for outdoor seating, helping add a little human scale connectivity between the building and Unity Plaza.

[Kerry]

Lets don't make this harder than it has to be.  Just move it to front Magnolia between Price and Dora and build a parking garage off the Oak St portion.  Sell off the unused land for someone else to develop.

Oklahoma City Aloft in downtown adjacent neighborhood.

[thelakelander]

A parking garage would surely blow the budget, unless the city is paying for the garage. Accept that every street doesn't have to be two-way in an urban street grid and use the existing asphalt as an opportunity to significantly reduce off-street parking needs. This is an area where the city can easily partner. A good example is parking off Margaret Street in Five Points that serves the retail spaces in front of Publix.

[Steve]

Site plan, from the Daily Record article linked below, which provides some further details:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/residence-inn-concept-reviewed-for-brooklyn

Utilities aren't the issue, as long as no one is suggesting moving a building over a public street to get it closer to Forest Street. What's needed is a little creativity with parking design and accommodation.  Just rethink what can be done with the streets surrounding the property.

1. Respect the traditional street grid by eliminating the thought of making the triangle between Oak, Price and Forest a surface parking lot.

2. Keep Forest open and consider making it accessible as a right-in only from Magnolia Street.

3. Consider making Magnolia a one-way, one lane street between Forest and Dora. The saved space could be a long block of on-street parallel parking adjacent to Unity Plaza. It will help compensate  the loss of parking in that triangle area.

4. Shift the building closer to Magnolia Street. To make this happen, build the off-street parking between the building and Magnolia off Magnolia, which could eliminate the need for a parallel off-street access drive there.

In the end, the building plan basically stays the same, does not penetrate the utility easement and you probably end up with or pretty close to the same number of parking spaces.

I like where you're going with this. If you make some of the parking on street, I'm wondering if it were to violate Marriott's requirements (or at least make Valet a requirement). Obviously Valet is fine IMO, but you do have to put the cars somewhere (and on the street may not be allowed). But yea, this design leaves a lot to be desired.

[Steve]

Lets don't make this harder than it has to be.  Just move it to front Magnolia between Price and Dora and build a parking garage off the Oak St portion.  Sell off the unused land for someone else to develop.

Oklahoma City Aloft in downtown adjacent neighborhood.

Yea, a garage is going to be a non-starter I bet. Garages are so much more expensive than surface.

Unless there was a drive to pool parking from something else, but I doubt it's a reality.

[Kerry]

Magnolia one way would be a horrible idea on so many levels.

[Kerry]

Yea, a garage is going to be a non-starter I bet. Garages are so much more expensive than surface.

Unless there was a drive to pool parking from something else, but I doubt it's a reality.

Then don't start.  Simple as that.

[Steve]

Yea, a garage is going to be a non-starter I bet. Garages are so much more expensive than surface.

Unless there was a drive to pool parking from something else, but I doubt it's a reality.

Then don't start.  Simple as that.

You can't expect every development to have to build a parking garage. It doesn't make sense.

I do agree this design is underwhelming, but I bet it can be fixed without a parking structure.

[jaxnyc79]

Who are these nincompoops who even present a site plan like this in an urban neighborhood.  Street activation in emerging urban communities is not a novelty any longer, and is happening all over the country, even in the sunbelt.  This isn't 1996.  Why even come with that.  The disrespect for Jax is just real and deep. 

[thelakelander]

I like where you're going with this. If you make some of the parking on street, I'm wondering if it were to violate Marriott's requirements (or at least make Valet a requirement). Obviously Valet is fine IMO, but you do have to put the cars somewhere (and on the street may not be allowed). But yea, this design leaves a lot to be desired.

You'd still have off-street parking behind the hotel on that strip that runs between Magnolia and Oak. You'd actually gain five or six spaces there by not having that interior driveway between Magnolia and the hotel.

[thelakelander]

Magnolia one way would be a horrible idea on so many levels.

Tell that to Charleston, New Orleans, St. Augustine, NYC, Boston and a ton of other vibrant historic urban cores that still work fine with them. At some point, you have to get back to designing a city to be human scaled as opposed to focusing on automobiles. This means, you won't die if the roads get or remain narrow like they've been in Brooklyn since the 1860s.

[edjax]

Well crap!  I am starting to hate this city.

A sizable portion of the land closest to Forest Street, to the west of the property, can't be built on due to underground utilities lines that the city said cannot be relocated.

This has to be the biggest load of crap yet.  If it is made by man it can be moved.  If they don't have any other ideas sell the land to someone who does.  This meeting should have lasted 2 seconds - No. Next.

Starting to hate it?  Think that has been well established.  Didn't you declare you were outta here soon?

[Charles Hunter]

True, utilities can be moved, but at what cost?  May Likely to be enough to make the project not viable.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I doubt that the cost of moving the utilities compares to the cost that comes when the hotel has to go back to the drawing board and redesign/re-engineer everything instead of using one of their cookie cutter plans, but I could be wrong.

The only thing that has me puzzled is the little piece of property that they're essentially building around.  PA has it listed as LO Properties.

[Kerry]

Well crap!  I am starting to hate this city.

A sizable portion of the land closest to Forest Street, to the west of the property, can't be built on due to underground utilities lines that the city said cannot be relocated.

This has to be the biggest load of crap yet.  If it is made by man it can be moved.  If they don't have any other ideas sell the land to someone who does.  This meeting should have lasted 2 seconds - No. Next.

Starting to hate it?  Think that has been well established.  Didn't you declare you were outta here soon?

My lease is up at 220 in Feb.  The little lady mentioned Savannah as a possiblity.  Not my first choice but they sure wouldn't put up with this nonsense.