William Stephen (Dare?) Griffin

[ChriswUfGator]

It seems there are two sides to this story. This is the lawsuit that was filed:

I have no personal involvement in any of it, got it from the clerk's site. I hope this stuff isn't true, if it is, it obviously looks, uh...not good.

Hmmm. The looks, Chris, seem to suggest you *do* have some personal involvement. Further, a serious argument can be made that accepting every allegation by Stephen as true, there's nothing to firmly base a recovery upon *and* he didn't protect himself *nor* was he obviously taken advantage of. Hell, he may very well have been *the* most experienced individual in the corporation. The clear implication? He shoulders an expectation that he knew or should have known the depth of his exposure given the admitted business practices he clearly signed off on.

That thing reads like a he said - he said in an entirely informal business arrangement. He gets nuttin.

I know Stephen socially, ditto with some of the other board members, I think they're all nice guys. That doesn't mean I'm representing anybody in the case, and I'm not.

The things you mentioned didn't strike me as determinative, in the real world most small businesses don't have share certificates or a formal operating agreement, that's sort of par for the course. But if you really want to know the part that worried me, it's not just pure opinion, it's the part about one group of board members starting up a competing business without the consent of the other board members. That's going to be legally problematic if it's true. I don't know if it is or isn't. I hope it's not. But that part stuck out at me.

[acme54321]

I don't know about anybody else but I don't personally view them as competing.  Modern Cities is obviously focused on general development and urban issues nationally with a bias towards Jax and there is no forum that I'm aware of.  Before Stephen was gone most of the content here was his random articles about drag queens, Tyler Shields, Trump, and whatever else he was fixated on at the time and spamming the forums with.  I'm sure it was this stuff that he claims was driving up the readership, LOL.  Maybe now they are more competing since no one is actively posting many articles and the conversations have returned to urban issues around town now that the drama queen is no more.

[MEGATRON]

The things you mentioned didn't strike me as determinative, in the real world most small businesses don't have .... a formal operating agreement, that's sort of par for the course

[Adam White]

I don't know about anybody else but I don't personally view them as competing.  Modern Cities is obviously focused on general development and urban issues nationally with a bias towards Jax and there is no forum that I'm aware of.  Before Stephen was gone most of the content here was his random articles about drag queens, Tyler Shields, Trump, and whatever else he was fixated on at the time and spamming the forums with.  I'm sure it was this stuff that he claims was driving up the readership, LOL.  Maybe now they are more competing since no one is actively posting many articles and the conversations have returned to urban issues around town now that the drama queen is no more.

You forgot Lee Harvey.

I think Stephen made a lot of great contributions, but I'd agree that in more recent times, the quality of content was kind of taking a nosedive. I think the Modern Cities stuff was pretty cool and it would appear that Ennis was the one keeping the site afloat, content-wise. At least in terms of worthwhile content.

All that aside, I think the site is a bit less entertaining without Stephen's input. But the forum is also a far less scary place, so there's that.

[ChriswUfGator]

The things you mentioned didn't strike me as determinative, in the real world most small businesses don't have .... a formal operating agreement, that's sort of par for the course

Say what you will, I'm just talking from personal experience. Done several corporate dissolution suits over the years, and I've yet to see one of them where a small business actually issued all the stock certificates and whatnot properly. People file the articles of incorporation and do the annual renewals, then seem to forget about the rest of it.

That said, I don't know what these guys do or don't have with MJ. Your guess is as good as mine.

[spuwho]

Think of the Eagles (band) when they performed a dissolution and removed Don Felder.  Don was listed on the incorporation papers as the CFO but he hadn't checked the finances ever. Then when he sobered up, he began to take on the fiduciary duties and found out Henley and Frey were kinda milking the cheese. When Henley and Frey wouldn't answer his phone calls, his attorney got involved. That is where the corporate attorney came in and notified Felder his duties were voted out. They settled out of court.

The GoGo's girl band pulled a nasty on bassist Kathy Valentine.  When Charlotte Caffey got ticked Valentine dropped a Twitter on her drug habit to promote a book, they moved to "eliminate" her.  The remaining GoGo's simply set up a new corporate entity, took all the touring money and paid a small licensing and rights fee to the former entity, of which Valentine had a irrevocable share of 20%. So she went from 20% of $2 million annually to only 20% of $100k. They also settled out of court.

Usually in these settlements are financial considerations for their past creative work and a press gag to keep the voted out members from talking to reporters about the dirt. That usually requires some kind of valuation of the former functional entity.  Felder isn't allowed to disclose his settlement, but he was able to write a book. Henley challenged it (and lost) but changes were made. (mostly material on Henley's drug habits)

Kathy Valentine also can't disclose anything, but she had already written a book on her GoGo's life, so the gag was limited to mostly the press.

Those were 2 examples where there was a formal agreement in place, but it was loosely enforced until one person spoke up.

[Adam White]

Think of the Eagles (band) when they performed a dissolution and removed Don Felder.  Don was listed on the incorporation papers as the CFO but he hadn't checked the finances ever. Then when he sobered up, he began to take on the fiduciary duties and found out Henley and Frey were kinda milking the cheese. When Henley and Frey wouldn't answer his phone calls, his attorney got involved. That is where the corporate attorney came in and notified Felder his duties were voted out. They settled out of court.

The GoGo's girl band pulled a nasty on bassist Kathy Valentine.  When Charlotte Caffey got ticked Valentine dropped a Twitter on her drug habit to promote a book, they moved to "eliminate" her.  The remaining GoGo's simply set up a new corporate entity, took all the touring money and paid a small licensing and rights fee to the former entity, of which Valentine had a irrevocable share of 20%. So she went from 20% of $2 million annually to only 20% of $100k. They also settled out of court.

Usually in these settlements are financial considerations for their past creative work and a press gag to keep the voted out members from talking to reporters about the dirt. That usually requires some kind of valuation of the former functional entity.  Felder isn't allowed to disclose his settlement, but he was able to write a book. Henley challenged it (and lost) but changes were made. (mostly material on Henley's drug habits)

Kathy Valentine also can't disclose anything, but she had already written a book on her GoGo's life, so the gag was limited to mostly the press.

Those were 2 examples where there was a formal agreement in place, but it was loosely enforced until one person spoke up.

Dude, the GoGos were a band. No need to use the word "girl" as a modifier. They were a shit ton better than the fucking "boy" band The Eagles, that's for damn sure.

[Midway ®]

ChrisW Gator's best quotes:

1. The disavowal:

I know Stephen and most of the other board members of MJ socially, which is why I didn't get involved. I never denied this, so I don't know what you think you're accomplishing this tinfoil-hat stuff. I said I'm not involved in the case, because I'm not involved in the case.

2. First legal opinion:

The things you mentioned didn't strike me as determinative, in the real world most small businesses don't have share certificates or a formal operating agreement, that's sort of par for the course. But if you really want to know the part that worried me, it's not just pure opinion, it's the part about one group of board members starting up a competing business without the consent of the other board members. That's going to be legally problematic if it's true. I don't know if it is or isn't. I hope it's not. But that part stuck out at me.

3. Second legal opinion:

Say what you will, I'm just talking from personal experience. Done several corporate dissolution suits over the years, and I've yet to see one of them where a small business actually issued all the stock certificates and whatnot properly. People file the articles of incorporation and do the annual renewals, then seem to forget about the rest of it.

Really? All I see are tenant evictions. Can you cite those cases for me? I would like to review them for relevance and outcome, since you are representing yourself as a legal expert in this area of practice.


Care to proffer further legal opinions, Counselor?

Or, how about another disclaimer / disavowal?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

Beware of the Law of Holes and may you be plump with pleasure.

[Adam White]

Why don't we get all the Metro Jax lawyers (and wannabe lawyers), maroon them on Exchange Club Island with a bit of food and not much else (save, maybe, a copy of Black's Law Dictionary) and let them go all "Lord of the Flies" on each other.

The one who makes it out alive will be the one whose opinion we will defer to on the matter of The Dare v a bunch of other guys whose names I don't know.

[Cheshire Cat]

Why don't we get all the Metro Jax lawyers (and wannabe lawyers), maroon them on Exchange Club Island with a bit of food and not much else (save, maybe, a copy of Black's Law Dictionary) and let them go all "Lord of the Flies" on each other.

The one who makes it out alive will be the one whose opinion we will defer to on the matter of The Dare v a bunch of other guys whose names I don't know.

Keep in mind it is because of the generosity of those guys whose "names you don't know" that you have been able to post your thoughts and opinions on this forum 2428 times.   This is something they do literally to offer a format for those who love Jacksonville to converse about our city and other topics of interest and it is there time and money that makes it happen.  Thanks guys!

[ChriswUfGator]

ChrisW Gator's best quotes:

1. The disavowal:

I know Stephen and most of the other board members of MJ socially, which is why I didn't get involved. I never denied this, so I don't know what you think you're accomplishing this tinfoil-hat stuff. I said I'm not involved in the case, because I'm not involved in the case.

2. First legal opinion:

The things you mentioned didn't strike me as determinative, in the real world most small businesses don't have share certificates or a formal operating agreement, that's sort of par for the course. But if you really want to know the part that worried me, it's not just pure opinion, it's the part about one group of board members starting up a competing business without the consent of the other board members. That's going to be legally problematic if it's true. I don't know if it is or isn't. I hope it's not. But that part stuck out at me.

3. Second legal opinion:

Say what you will, I'm just talking from personal experience. Done several corporate dissolution suits over the years, and I've yet to see one of them where a small business actually issued all the stock certificates and whatnot properly. People file the articles of incorporation and do the annual renewals, then seem to forget about the rest of it.

Really? All I see are tenant evictions. Can you cite those cases for me? I would like to review them for relevance and outcome, since you are representing yourself as a legal expert in this area of practice.


Care to proffer further legal opinions, Counselor?

Or, how about another disclaimer / disavowal?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

Beware of the Law of Holes and may you be plump with pleasure.

The clerk's site doesn't show results by the name of the lawyer, only by name of the party. Meaning the cases you're finding are those in which I was actually a party, not attorney. That you don't know how the CORE search function works is hardly my fault.

[Adam White]

Why don't we get all the Metro Jax lawyers (and wannabe lawyers), maroon them on Exchange Club Island with a bit of food and not much else (save, maybe, a copy of Black's Law Dictionary) and let them go all "Lord of the Flies" on each other.

The one who makes it out alive will be the one whose opinion we will defer to on the matter of The Dare v a bunch of other guys whose names I don't know.

Keep in mind it is because of the generosity of those guys whose "names you don't know" that you have been able to post your thoughts and opinions on this forum 2428 times.   This is something they do literally to offer a format for those who love Jacksonville to converse about our city and other topics of interest and it is there time and money that makes it happen.  Thanks guys!

Thanks Mom 

You have to be one of the most humor-challenged people I have ever had the opportunity to (not actually) meet. At least you didn't call my comments an "atrocity," so that's a start...

Edit: for the record, I wasn't disparaging any of the other Metro Jax people. But they all have user names that are not their actual names, to my knowledge. Stephen used his name.

I don't have an opinion on the case - my post was about the massive legal pissing contest that is unfolding in this thread. I figured that would be pretty clear. But maybe it requires a bit of imagination.

[Midway ®]

Don't use CORE.

Where's the citations?

Perhaps you confused yourself with your father?

I can understand how that could happen.

[spuwho]

Think of the Eagles (band) when they performed a dissolution and removed Don Felder.  Don was listed on the incorporation papers as the CFO but he hadn't checked the finances ever. Then when he sobered up, he began to take on the fiduciary duties and found out Henley and Frey were kinda milking the cheese. When Henley and Frey wouldn't answer his phone calls, his attorney got involved. That is where the corporate attorney came in and notified Felder his duties were voted out. They settled out of court.

The GoGo's girl band pulled a nasty on bassist Kathy Valentine.  When Charlotte Caffey got ticked Valentine dropped a Twitter on her drug habit to promote a book, they moved to "eliminate" her.  The remaining GoGo's simply set up a new corporate entity, took all the touring money and paid a small licensing and rights fee to the former entity, of which Valentine had a irrevocable share of 20%. So she went from 20% of $2 million annually to only 20% of $100k. They also settled out of court.

Usually in these settlements are financial considerations for their past creative work and a press gag to keep the voted out members from talking to reporters about the dirt. That usually requires some kind of valuation of the former functional entity.  Felder isn't allowed to disclose his settlement, but he was able to write a book. Henley challenged it (and lost) but changes were made. (mostly material on Henley's drug habits)

Kathy Valentine also can't disclose anything, but she had already written a book on her GoGo's life, so the gag was limited to mostly the press.

Those were 2 examples where there was a formal agreement in place, but it was loosely enforced until one person spoke up.

Dude, the GoGos were a band. No need to use the word "girl" as a modifier. They were a shit ton better than the fucking "boy" band The Eagles, that's for damn sure.

All it does is date me "dude". I own their albums and when they started, all girl bands were still unique. Forgive me?

At least the info I shared passed your filter.

As Casey Kasem would say, "Now, back to the countdown"

[Cheshire Cat]

Why don't we get all the Metro Jax lawyers (and wannabe lawyers), maroon them on Exchange Club Island with a bit of food and not much else (save, maybe, a copy of Black's Law Dictionary) and let them go all "Lord of the Flies" on each other.

The one who makes it out alive will be the one whose opinion we will defer to on the matter of The Dare v a bunch of other guys whose names I don't know.

Keep in mind it is because of the generosity of those guys whose "names you don't know" that you have been able to post your thoughts and opinions on this forum 2428 times.   This is something they do literally to offer a format for those who love Jacksonville to converse about our city and other topics of interest and it is there time and money that makes it happen.  Thanks guys!

Thanks Mom 

You have to be one of the most humor-challenged people I have ever had the opportunity to (not actually) meet. At least you didn't call my comments an "atrocity," so that's a start...

Edit: for the record, I wasn't disparaging any of the other Metro Jax people. But they all have user names that are not their actual names, to my knowledge. Stephen used his name.

I don't have an opinion on the case - my post was about the massive legal pissing contest that is unfolding in this thread. I figured that would be pretty clear. But maybe it requires a bit of imagination.

You are welcome son.  Actually I have a great sense of humor, I just have not figured you out yet.  I am getting there.  lol