The Jacksonville Jaguars

[thelakelander]

It doesn't personally bother me if Hardy plays or doesn't play again in the NFL. If he plays for the Jags, hopefully he lives up to whatever contract they give him. Same goes for if he played for the Dolphins or any other team. If he doesn't so be it, the world goes on without skipping a beat.

It's just hard for me to understand where people draw their line in the sand. For example, didn't a Jags player recently get videotaped letting his girl and baby momma beat the brains out of each other? That's not a morally acceptable action either. In a way, it's like hiring a hitman to do the murder instead of killing the other person yourself. At the end of the day, it's still pretty messed up.

Then there's the WR who can't stay out of the bottle. He'd still be in a Jags uniform right now if the league hadn't suspended him. Then there's Jimmy Smith. An all-time Jags great with well documented problems. His problems certainly didn't start after his football days ended. So does this mean its time to start boycotting Jags games?  This pretty much goes for any team, business, etc. Dig hard enough and you'll find some type of action taking place that will be morally questioned.

[thelakelander]

Yeah. Kind of hard to really follow sports and invest in a favorite team if you're looking for all the people associated with them to be moral role models. Take my perspective for what it's worth. I grew up a 1980s Hurricanes fan...

[KenFSU]

It's just hard for me to understand where people draw their line in the sand.

Ding ding ding.

Michael Jordan was a bully who cheated on his wife and refused to a moral stand against Jesse Helms, an openly racist North Carolina governor who called Martin Luther King Jr. a criminal and said the Civil Rights Act was the most dangerous piece of legislation ever passed, because "Republicans buy sneakers too."

Kobe Bryant just went on a year-long victory tour, where he was celebrated in every NBA city, despite being charged with rape, lying to police, apologizing to the woman for his actions, and settling out of court.

Chris Brown and Justin Bieber sell out every concert they play, despite being giant sacks of shit.

Mike Tyson is viewed as a lovable teddy bear.

Marv Albert is the most coveted sportscaster in the country, and he was charged with sodomizing a woman and biting her 20 times.

Bill Clinton stuck a cigar into his intern's privates, and his successor capitalized on one of the worst tragedies in modern American history to drag the country into war on false pretenses.

Martha Stewart went to jail for insider trading.

Paula Deen hates black people, yet she's cheered on Dancing with the Stars.

Michael Vick is still an NFL player.

The genie's long since out of the bottle.

Greg Hardy is a pretty disgusting human being, but given how our sports/media/hero culture have evolved in this country, it's weird to see people selectively outraged over something as simple as a meeting. I also think it's perfectly reasonable, and perfectly natural, to be able to admire someone's talents and abilities without approving of how they conduct themselves in their personal life.

[JaxJersey-licious]

So word gets around that the team is working out a vile convicted woman beater but someone dares have the audacity to question bringing him in and gets accused of overreacting. A player none of you would let near your female loved ones given his documented violent past much less have the Jags sign. Really? Unless you really think domestic violence is no big deal, more ticket holders should be giving the front office holy hell and promising Florida Creamery-like consequences if they dare sign him.

Because what if he did end up signing with the Jags because the backlash against him was so strong everywhere else he was looking to sign? If Jacksonville were to be Hardy's least-contentious option as far as fan outrage, he could possibly low-ball his selling point to where the Jags front office couldn't refuse him. And what does that do for the Jaguars precious "brand" they're so desperately trying to grow? What would that say about the organization? The fans? The people of Jacksonville?

Very few of us need a lecture about the evil of domestic violence and its consequences. As men our outrage against these acts, our support for the victims of abuse, and our desire to prevent such incidences have been about the same for decades now, but what needs to change is  how domestic violence had been overlooked and dismissed in professional sports. The sandbox of discrepancies for athletes have been trampled on far too long,imo, and it's high time we start making highly visible trenches in the sand delineating unacceptable behavior.

If we have to do it one issue at a time so be it. This isn't the 80's anymore.

[KenFSU]

What would that say about the people of Jacksonville?

Roughly 1/1000th of what our HRO says about the upstanding people of Jacksonville.

[Tacachale]

I'm with Matt. Fuck this guy. What he did isn't in the same league as the guys who get drunk, use drugs, or are bad husbands, and it's silly to equate them. He's much closer to Chris Brown, a cannibal who eats people in parked cars. I don't want the team I give my entertainment dollars and tax dollars to sign or consider signing him.

There's a myth that NFL teams "need" to be open to hiring people like Hardy because they can play the game well. There are 1,696 players in the NFL in a given year. There are over 90,000 college football players a year, plus all the dudes from previous years who didn't make the NFL's artificially low number of slots. Even if domestic abusers and violent criminals made up a large portion of the NFL, which I doubt, the league could ax and replace them all without hardly a dent in the quality of play.

[thelakelander]

Well let's just stick to domestic violence and rape. Right off the top of my head....Ray Rice, Johnny Manziel, Adrian Peterson, Montee Ball, Darren Sharper, Ben Roethlisberger, Ezekiel Elliott, etc. the list goes on.

According to this site, there's been 93 domestic violence arrests involving NFL players between 2000 and 2015: http://nfl-arrests.pointafter.com/

Who really knows how high the number could really be. I could care less about Hardy but I'm failing to see any logical argument in where one draws their line in the sand. I mean, seriously, we might as well close things down because you're not going to find one team in the league without someone who's been hit with a charge. While we're just talking about sports, the same goes for most places everyone here works. If you work for a good size company or attend a school or church, more than likely there's a few bad apples right around you. They just haven't been publicly exposed.

Jaguars LB Dan Skuta arrested, charged with battery

Jacksonville Jaguars linebacker Dan Skuta was arrested and charged with misdemeanor first-degree battery for an incident in Orlando on June 19.

The Orlando Police Department told actionnewsjax.com that Skuta pushed a woman's face "with an open hand into a glass window" at around 2:30 a.m. Skuta, according to the police, had alcohol on his breath and bloodshot eyes.

According to the accuser, she and her friend were standing on the sidewalk when Skuta approached her, "and began talking to her and flirting with her. When Skuta asked for [the woman's] phone number [and] she told him, 'No,' a verbal altercation ensued."

Skuta, who paid a $500 bond, has a July 20 court appearance, according to the Orange County (Florida) Clerk's office. The linebacker is demanding a jury trial on the charges, according to documents on the Orange County Clerk's website.

Skuta faces potential actions from the NFL. Commissioner Roger Goodell updated the league's domestic violence policy in 2014. The policy calls for a six-game suspension without pay for a first offense and possible lifetime ban for a second offense.

"The Jaguars are aware of the situation involving linebacker Dan Skuta and are currently gathering more information," the team said in a released statement. "The team has been in constant communication with Dan through this process in its entirety. No further comment can be made at this time."

Skuta had 40 tackles and 1.5 sacks last season with the Jaguars.

espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/16558788/jacksonville-jaguars-lb-dan-skuta-arrested-charged-battery

[Tacachale]

There's also a difference between being accused of something and being convicted of it.

[thelakelander]

So is that the line the sand? Root for your favorite team, but leave once someone affiliated is convicted of a crime? I'm just trying to understand where the passion of being a sports fan is abruptly turned off.

[Tacachale]

Why would you have to stop rooting for them? Especially if they handled things correctly? All the same, I'd prefer that the team that gets my money doesn't employ wife beaters, rapists, Chris Brown-style cannibals, etc. It's not as if there's a competitive advantage to hiring people like that; Hardy for instance is also a notorious pain in the ass as a player. If there was such an advantage, your Canes would still be a relevant team (and most of the "dirt" they were famous for wasn't nearly as bad as this.)

I predict that regardless of whether old school fans continue making excuses, the NFL and other leagues are going to start taking a harder line with this stuff. That's the way public opinion is going. They'll just move on to the 90,000+ other players a year who aren't violent criminals.

[thelakelander]

I'm not making excuses, I'm just a realist.  The reality is, all this ends up being superficial. You're still spending your money being entertained by a group of employees that include the Hardys of the world.  Even, if the Jags themselves are clean (which they aren't), they're still apart of the NFL and don't play themselves on Sunday. Your cash is going to more than just the Jags.  So if this loser gets picked up by a team like Houston, nothing changes. One can artificially feel good inside, while they down beers in Everbank as Hardy repeatedly sacks Bortles and gets rich doing so. 

Also, there's a big talent gap amongst those +90k players. The prime Mike Vicks and Randy Moss-like talents of the world will always get chances to redeem themselves that the average kid staring at EWC or JU will never have. That's not excuse making, that's reality and the public response to that talent gap can easily be seen in the attendance at games.

Only the biggest knuckleheads will exhaust them.....but it's always been that way.

[Tacachale]

I'd call that fatalistic rather than realistic.

Ideally clowns like Hardy would not get another opportunity to earn millions from taxpayer subsidized teams of any kind, and have to find other work. The Jags are merely the team where Hardy specifically is in the news at the moment, and the subject of this thread, so that's what we've been commenting on. This stuff has been tolerated historically because the league and fans tolerate it. Fans are starting to change, and the league will most likely follow suit, regardless of what any particular individual thinks about it. No one player, even someone like Vick or Moss, let alone this fool, are worth the headache.

[thelakelander]

Hardy aside, are fans really changing? Just look at FSU. They sure put up with Jameis Winston and made a ton of excuses to justify his actions and keep him on the field. Tally PD too. The girl who came out was immediately vilified, even on this forum. All that headache got them was a national championship. They'd take a Jameis and all of the trouble that came with him over another 5 years of Chris Rix any day.

[Tacachale]

Polls say that fans are changing. Most show that a majority of fans, even stronger among female fans, now disapprove of the NFL's kid glove treatment of domestic abusers. This local poll has been typical:

https://www.unf.edu/publicrelations/media_relations/press/2014/UNF_Survey_Finds_Domestic_Violence_Issue_Possible_Red_Zone_Fumble_for_NFL.aspx

There's also a noticeable difference to how the NFL handles more recent cases compared to previous years.

Jameis Winston's case wasn't the NFL, but it's an example of how ridiculous football culture can be. At the same time, the outcry was greater than similar or worse cases in the past. It's a sign that public opinion is changing even if FSU and Tallahassee aren't.

There's also the question of what the league and teams *can* do, which I think is what Matt was originally getting at. The NFL and its teams can do pretty much anything they want. They already have conduct policies and until recently were handing out harsher penalties to players for much lighter shit than this.

[tufsu1]

They'd take a Jameis and all of the trouble that came with him over another 5 years of Chris Rix any day.

But Chris Rix could do flips (not always while keeping the ball)