JSO involved shooting in Springfield

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Question for you Strider:

The collision between Bing and the officer was head-on.  Was there JSO directly behind Bing pursuing at a high rate of speed or were they already 'passively' tracking him because he was in a neighborhood.  Essentially throwing a net over the area and closing in?

Did Bing only accelerate the moment he saw the JSO turn in front of him on 9th St?

I don't know, but these are what I feel as valid questions.

What we do know is that the officer was turning at 14 MPH, Bing was traveling at 53 MPH.  That means Bing's car travels 78 feet every second. If we assume officers were still in pursuit,

This means that we can also assume that Bing was't being actively pursued and was driving at high speeds in an attempt to outflank the cops.

Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups, is it not? 

Lots of possible scenarios as of yet and that fact does not lesson the responsibility of the JSO

nor does it indict them.

nor tell us the resting place of the four extra bullets. How close did they come to injuring an innocent by-stander?

Absolute non-sequitur.  Bullets have nothing to do with high-speed chases.  Had someone been hit, then we have that conversation.  What if Bing had crashed into a crowd of people prior to the accident?  What if the JSO officer plowed over someone crossing the street before getting to Bing?  These are 'what if' scenarios that are completely irrelevant to the topic. 

[strider]

Actually, the conversation is indeed about where the bullets ended up as well as if the chase was a valid "hot pursuit". 

Of course you can "assume" many things here to support whatever scenario you wish to be considered true.  That does not change the fact that a car chase over a stolen car put many at risk by both the suspect and JSO and resulted in the death of a young unarmed man.

In this case, we, the public, the City and JSO, were all very fortunate that we are not having a conversation about one or more innocent by-standers seriously hurt or dead.

This conversation will ultimately be about who is responsible and what happens the next time a stolen car is spotted and chased.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Of course you can "assume" many things here to support whatever scenario you wish to be considered true.

If you've read through my posts on the matter, I haven't exactly 'assumed' anything other than my original 'what if' scenario that required a great deal of assumption.

There are definitely two sides to this issue (and the many that are like it) and while I don't have a 'side', I find it ironic that posters from both sides, while acknowledging the few 'facts' we have, find it OK to just fill in the blanks with assumptions.

Was he being actively pursued at a high rate of speed or not?
Did he make any kind of motion/gesture/attempt that would make the JSO believe he might have had a weopon?
Did he initially run because he knew he was guilty of something or because he just panicked?

The first will have a clear answer. 
Tje second will more than likely be left up to he said/she said.
The 3rd, possibly the most important question of all, will not be answered.

But until you start finding the answers to these questions, you can't even truly ask the others regarding responsibility to the public and individual judgment calls of the officers involved.

[Adam White]

Back when I was in HS (I think this happened in 1989 or 1990 - it was during my senior year), my best friend was doing a ride along with the JSO because he was a Police Explorer scout or something. Anyway, he was involved in a high speed chase. Apparently a car was doing doughnuts in parking lot in Fernandina. The driver fled when the cops arrived - apparently he was recently out of jail or prison and didn't want to go back. This led to a high speed chase into Duval County. The JSO fired shots at the car as it sped down the highway. It was at night. Eventually the car crashed near downtown (I think) and the driver was shot and killed by the JSO when the rushed the car. My friend had to testify in court as to what he saw and heard.

The driver was unarmed and hadn't really done much wrong, other than flee. Well, that and the doughnuts. I don't know what happened to the cop or cops who killed the guy - but a guy ending up dead after a very dangerous high speed chase (complete with gunfire) wasn't the right outcome, regardless.

I'm sure the JSO has changed a lot since those days - but I still think a lot of cops have  a "shoot first and ask questions later" approach to dealing with suspects.

[AKIRA]

Actually, the conversation is indeed about where the bullets ended up as well as if the chase was a valid "hot pursuit". 

Of course you can "assume" many things here to support whatever scenario you wish to be considered true.  That does not change the fact that a car chase over a stolen car put many at risk by both the suspect and JSO and resulted in the death of a young unarmed man.

In this case, we, the public, the City and JSO, were all very fortunate that we are not having a conversation about one or more innocent by-standers seriously hurt or dead.

This conversation will ultimately be about who is responsible and what happens the next time a stolen car is spotted and chased.

Again, it was not about a solen car.  It was about a armed robbery suspect. It's not the cart that's the issue; it's the act of armed robbery.

Would you prefer that the police crease trying to stop the bad guys in the urban core?  Just leave those neighborhoods out to dry?  Does it not seem dangerous to chase such people into a neighborhood, and then decided to just leave them there to prey the populace.

It should be noted that Mr. Bing and the officer were alone during the shooting.  That means the police chasing him had dropped back, does it not?  Is it not possible that the officer was trying to cut off Mr. Bing before recklessly driving through a neighborhood to escape his pending charge?

I am somewhat amazed at the leaps of hope to faith Mr. Bing of his responsibility and the leaps of reasons to find fault with the police.   

But frankly, since someone here keeps quoting anti-Semitic, racist speakers when talking about justice, but fail to see the reality of those speakers and what they are really about, it does not shock me...

[strider]

Actually, the conversation is indeed about where the bullets ended up as well as if the chase was a valid "hot pursuit". 

Of course you can "assume" many things here to support whatever scenario you wish to be considered true.  That does not change the fact that a car chase over a stolen car put many at risk by both the suspect and JSO and resulted in the death of a young unarmed man.

In this case, we, the public, the City and JSO, were all very fortunate that we are not having a conversation about one or more innocent by-standers seriously hurt or dead.

This conversation will ultimately be about who is responsible and what happens the next time a stolen car is spotted and chased.

Again, it was not about a solen car.  It was about a armed robbery suspect. It's not the cart that's the issue; it's the act of armed robbery.

Would you prefer that the police crease trying to stop the bad guys in the urban core?  Just leave those neighborhoods out to dry?  Does it not seem dangerous to chase such people into a neighborhood, and then decided to just leave them there to prey the populace.

It should be noted that Mr. Bing and the officer were alone during the shooting.  That means the police chasing him had dropped back, does it not?  Is it not possible that the officer was trying to cut off Mr. Bing before recklessly driving through a neighborhood to escape his pending charge?

I am somewhat amazed at the leaps of hope to faith Mr. Bing of his responsibility and the leaps of reasons to find fault with the police.   

But frankly, since someone here keeps quoting anti-Semitic, racist speakers when talking about justice, but fail to see the reality of those speakers and what they are really about, it does not shock me...

Please quote where we have been told that the pursing officers knew for sure anything but they were pursuing a suspect in a stolen car.  The armed robbery you speak to was a month before this pursuit.  How did the officers know the driver was doing anything illegal except driving a stolen car and resisting arrest?

If Bing and the officer had been truly alone, we would not have the various eye-witness accounts nor the facts released by the JSO. How close were the pursuing officers?  We do not know yet.  But probably not far behind.  I suspect, but granted, do not know, that while the suspect probably blasted through the intersections, the pursuing officers where a bit more careful so a bit slower.

Not sure how questioning the validity of a hot pursuit and the firing of five rounds at a probably disoriented suspect by an JSO officer is anything but the application of common sense. While we can't lessen Bing's responsibility in this, how can we not see JSO's responsibility as well?  I highly suspect JSO's leadership knows how lucky it was that this incident did not involve innocent by-standers more than it did. And are asking the same questions about the pursuit and the shooting.

As to the reporting of what the New Black Panthers and others may say about this incident. Well, it has been reported. Nothing more. I see nothing that indicates this site is promoting those groups and I see a pretty equal reporting what JSO has said as well.

The only positive to come out of this incident is a possible conversation to improve things in the future. We can't change the loss of a young man nor can we change what the officer himself may be feeling or facing.

[sheclown]

nice article in Folio by Springfield Resident Jim Moody.  "UNITED in SPRINGFIELD"

http://folioweekly.com/UNITED-in-SPRINGFIELD,15417

[menace1069]

What if...we all just agree to disagree because your endless bantering and squabbling over semantics means nothing? Who cares? How about that?

Ugh..."the police should have stopped", "the guy wasn't trying to hurt anyone", "they were in a residential neighborhood"....get over it. The jackass ran from the cops...obviously he was wanted for something or he would have pulled over. He ran, got chased and got shot.

Lesson learned: Don't be a jackass, don't do stupid crap and don't run from the cops. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Guess what? It will probably happen again tonight because people are idiots.

[TheCat]

What if...we all just agree to disagree because your endless bantering and squabbling over semantics means nothing? Who cares? How about that?

Ugh..."the police should have stopped", "the guy wasn't trying to hurt anyone", "they were in a residential neighborhood"....get over it. The jackass ran from the cops...obviously he was wanted for something or he would have pulled over. He ran, got chased and got shot.

Lesson learned: Don't be a jackass, don't do stupid crap and don't run from the cops. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Guess what? It will probably happen again tonight because people are idiots.

meh.. and when people decide that you are a jackass for online comments, are any consequences off limits?

[Adam White]

What if...we all just agree to disagree because your endless bantering and squabbling over semantics means nothing? Who cares? How about that?

Ugh..."the police should have stopped", "the guy wasn't trying to hurt anyone", "they were in a residential neighborhood"....get over it. The jackass ran from the cops...obviously he was wanted for something or he would have pulled over. He ran, got chased and got shot.

Lesson learned: Don't be a jackass, don't do stupid crap and don't run from the cops. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Guess what? It will probably happen again tonight because people are idiots.

Semantics?

[menace1069]

What if...we all just agree to disagree because your endless bantering and squabbling over semantics means nothing? Who cares? How about that?

Ugh..."the police should have stopped", "the guy wasn't trying to hurt anyone", "they were in a residential neighborhood"....get over it. The jackass ran from the cops...obviously he was wanted for something or he would have pulled over. He ran, got chased and got shot.

Lesson learned: Don't be a jackass, don't do stupid crap and don't run from the cops. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Guess what? It will probably happen again tonight because people are idiots.

meh.. and when people decide that you are a jackass for online comments, are any consequences off limits?

LOL. There's very little chance that I'll get shot by the cops for my online comments, no matter how ridiculous they may be.

[sheclown]

Alan Grayson talks Vernell Bing Jr.: 'A death like that has to mean something'
June 5, 2016 By A.G. Gancarski


In Jacksonville Saturday to speak to the Florida Young Democrats, Rep. Alan Grayson made another stop beforehand: a vigil for Vernell Bing Jr., who was shot down by a police officer last month.

"They told me that I'm the only elected official who's shown up the last two weeks," Grayson said.

"It tears them up," the Orlando congressman added. "A death like that has to mean something."

For Grayson, who believes Bing was "cheated out of fifty years of life," the meaning is part of an illustration of a larger trend.

At the rally, linked above, Grayson struggled with parlance – referring to Bing as "that boy," a phrase corrected by someone on hand to "that man."

Yet his remarks about needing not just "equality of opportunity, but equality of results" were received respectfully.

Grayson, by and large, is an unknown commodity in Jacksonville. But he expects that to change. He has paid staff here, including local Democratic activist Ben Weaver, and 5 percent of all Democrats in Florida are in Duval County ... which could be pivotal in the Senate primary Aug. 30.

Grayson, whose message of unrepentant "Feel the Bern" style liberalism is not necessarily the brand you see elsewhere in the Duval Democratic Party, is a different kind of Dem than people are used to in the 904.

And the Bing rally illustrates why.

"I hugged the mother, prayed with her," Grayson said, before talking about the root causes of what happened to Bing and countless other young African-American men.

"There's a pervasive problem called racism," Grayson says, with impacts reflected in everything from medial salary numbers to educational outcomes.

Pointing out that the average African-American per capita income of $37,000 is well-below the average of $57,000 for whites, Grayson said there was a "$20,000 poll tax" on blacks "based on the color of your skin."

Grayson referred, in our 25 minute phone conversation Saturday evening, to a young man named Andrew Joseph in Tampa, who died in 2014 crossing Interstate 4 on foot after being ejected from a fair by police officers.

In the wake of that incident, Grayson sat down with parents, made calls for civilian review boards, and petitioned the FBI and Justice Department to investigate patterns of racial profiling.

Since people in the Bing case have already petitioned for federal redress, Grayson is "willing to look over the request they've made" and see if his input or signature will help.

Grayson sees parallels between the Jacksonville area where Bing was killed and metro areas in other parts of the state, saying that the neighborhood in Jacksonville "could fairly be called a ghetto" given the evident disparities.

In Tampa, there are "enormous amounts of segregation" as well, with "blacks denied political power," disenfranchised through laws, such as those that strip suffrage from convicted felons.

Over 2 million Floridians can't vote, said Grayson. Over half are black.

"We literally lead the nation in black disenfranchisement."

Grayson sees himself as the polar opposite of his opponent, Patrick Murphy, whom he sees as a "right-wing Republican" who was just one of seven Democrats to support the congressional Benghazi investigation.

Clinton has overlooked Murphy's deviation from party line; Grayson, however, is not there.

Grayson wants voters in Jacksonville "to understand – I work hard, I pay attention, and I get things done."

He has less than three months to make that pitch.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/212260-alan-grayson-talks-vernell-bing-death-like-mean-something

[sheclown]

http://www.youtube.com/v/fAsPbVJG994

Published on May 31, 2016

"Kemetic Empire teams up with MK ULTRA in order to Bring to light that which is in the dark"

[strider]

Melissa Ross is currently talking about Vernell Bing on First Coast Connect.

[sheclown]

Jacksonville Bold for 6.7.16 – The meaning of Vernell Bing's life and death
June 7, 2016 By Peter Schorsch
 
Is Vernell Bing, Jr. an outlier? Or a harbinger of a summer of violence and misunderstanding to come?

It depends on who you ask.

Bing was, by every account, shot in the head last month after a 3.7-mile chase, which ended with Bing's stolen car colliding head-on with a police cruiser at 9th and Liberty streets.

Councilman Reggie Gaffney called for an independent investigation into the incident.

Pastor R.L. Gundy puts this episode in a larger tradition, one involving African-American "children being shot down like wild animals in the streets while our women are being beaten and abused by JSO Officers."

In all caps, Gundy makes his point: "WE NEED CAMERAS IN CARS AND ON OFFICERS TO PROTECT THE JSO AND US!"

Gundy also says that this pattern of police violence precludes the passage of the pension-tax referendum.

U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson, meanwhile, said that "a death like that has to mean something."

Protesters have been standing vigil at the corner of 9th and Liberty for two weeks since Bing's killing, and they have no plans to leave anytime soon (though there may have been a weather-driven pause Monday evening).

And someone claiming to be with Anonymous also has taken notice.

"Our police have become judge, jury and executioners. We will not stand for this ... We are calling for the doxxing of all JSO officers involved, along with State Attorney Angela Corey for her lack of action in this and mishandling in many other cases ... as well as boots on the ground to join us in solidarity with this community and to contest the police fear they have been placing on this assembly on Saturday, June 11, 2016, in a Rally 4 Li'l Redd."

For the uninitiated, "doxxing," involves the release of private information into a public forum.

Opinions on the death of Bing run the gamut, and tend to fit the interpretative bias of the speaker.

There is a huge camp that says that the police shooting of Bing was justifiable. Indeed, it could be said that the head-on collision was an attempt to use lethal force against theofficer. And for someone born in 1992, Bing's rap sheet is substantial.

And then there is the camp that says that Bing's killing is yet another in an endless series of lethal police violence against citizens.

Can the concerns of these camps be reconciled?

That's ultimately the question upon which the legacies of all incumbents – Mayor Lenny Curry, Sheriff Mike Williams, and Angela Corey – will be predicated.

If a dialogue can be created, it will have to bridge a gulf – over decades of aggressive policing, over generations of resource and outcome inequities, and over social dynamics whose roots go back centuries.

The dialogue is going to have to be created.

Otherwise, another Vernell Bing, Jr. incident is inevitable.

And those questions that weren't answered this time will be posed again, this time with a feeling there is even less to lose than before.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/212247-jacksonville-bold-6-7-16-meaning-vernell-bings-life-death