5 Points intersection beacon

[camarocane]

The beacon was not originally a traffic control device but a location marker and an intersection warning since Park St curves right there.  After it was damaged in 1962 the City, in its "infinite wisdom" added the "keep right" signs and made it into one.  It is certainly in the wrong place for it.

There was actually a similar beacon in the late 1920's at the intersection of Post and Margaret.  Does anyone know when it was removed?  Lakelander recently found a picture of it.

[Adam White]

I've lived in Riverside for years now and frequent 5 Points quite regularly and drive though on an almost daily basis and I've never seen an accident happen at the beacon.

Yeah, I lived there for over 10 years and can't recall any accidents.

I don't agree with the roundabout idea, as the beacon doesn't really function as one. For example, you wouldn't drive around the beacon to travel across Park on Margaret.

[coredumped]

What do "5 Points" areas in other cities do?

Here's Birmingham, they have lights there:



Google maps link: https://goo.gl/maps/EaTCmJyKn712

[Josh]

I've lived in Riverside for years now and frequent 5 Points quite regularly and drive though on an almost daily basis and I've never seen an accident happen at the beacon.

Yeah, I lived there for over 10 years and can't recall any accidents.

I don't agree with the roundabout idea, as the beacon doesn't really function as one. For example, you wouldn't drive around the beacon to travel across Park on Margaret.

I've seen people do that however.

[Adam White]

I've lived in Riverside for years now and frequent 5 Points quite regularly and drive though on an almost daily basis and I've never seen an accident happen at the beacon.

Yeah, I lived there for over 10 years and can't recall any accidents.

I don't agree with the roundabout idea, as the beacon doesn't really function as one. For example, you wouldn't drive around the beacon to travel across Park on Margaret.

I've seen people do that however.

Yeah - me too. And it looks really funny.

[Bridges]

I'm confused.  Isn't it supposed to function as modified roundabout?  Basically a roundabout where certain lanes have priority? 

Are you saying you stay left on Margaret?  Even though it says Keep Right?

[Josh]

I'm confused.  Isn't it supposed to function as modified roundabout?  Basically a roundabout where certain lanes have priority? 

Are you saying you stay left on Margaret?  Even though it says Keep Right?

Here's how that approach would look.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3135898,-81.6812792,3a,75y,358.56h,80.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s7JueuqIKdGfhtCeiZYNaGA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D7JueuqIKdGfhtCeiZYNaGA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D99.8501%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

It should be pretty obvious that you should just go straight, but if you treat the sign as the gospel, you're going to be going way out of your way to go straight.

The best way to treat the intersection is just look at is as an offset 4-way intersection where Park Street doesn't have a stop sign, and there's an additional side street.

If Lomax does go 1-way it will help a lot during busy hours.

[Adam White]

^exactly - you only keep to the right when traveling past the bollard.

[hound dog]

Didn't Stephen Tocknell draw up a plan for this intersection for the Brown Administration?

[CCMjax]

The round-about at San Marco Square works perfectly so the comment of "American drivers don't know how to use them" is pretty ridiculous and insulting. The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I was referring to mini roundabouts - try to pay attention and maybe you won't be so easily insulted 

I'm pretty sure what you are calling a mini roundabout is exactly what they recently constructed in San Marco and is what the other poster is talking about too.  I can't think of one example of a mini roundabout or larger roundabout in this area or other areas I've lived that had issues because "Americans don't know how to use them."  This is what everyone assumes before they build them here, and there is a huge uproar, then once they are in place they work fine and everyone is happy.

[Adam White]

The round-about at San Marco Square works perfectly so the comment of "American drivers don't know how to use them" is pretty ridiculous and insulting. The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I was referring to mini roundabouts - try to pay attention and maybe you won't be so easily insulted 

I'm pretty sure what you are calling a mini roundabout is exactly what they recently constructed in San Marco and is what the other poster is talking about too.  I can't think of one example of a mini roundabout or larger roundabout in this area or other areas I've lived that had issues because "Americans don't know how to use them."  This is what everyone assumes before they build them here, and there is a huge uproar, then once they are in place they work fine and everyone is happy.

Does it look like this? Because if it does, I sincerely apologise. But this is what I meant:

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/articles/roundabouts/img/mini.jpg

As far as Americans not getting them, I speak from personal experience. Of course, not everyone is me or whatever.

[Adam White]

wrong.  you keep right.  you do not go across park.

the history is interesting and explains the location being in a place where keeping right seems weird, but the sign is there saying "keep right" in every direction for a reason. 

Unless this JSO officer is wrong:

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/402032/jessie-lynne-kerr/2010-11-08/whats-right-way-get-through-five-points

but I echo others- never seen an accident.  but plenty of near misses and face palm entertainment while at hovan

I honestly think he's wrong - because I've seen plenty of cops travel across Park on Margaret without doing a loop around the bollard (if traveling north or whatever direction that is).

[Adam White]

I honestly think he's wrong - because I've seen plenty of cops travel across Park on Margaret without doing a loop around the bollard (if traveling north or whatever direction that is).

In my experience I wouldn't call observing cops behavior a great strategy for determining the legality of an action

True... but by that argument, a single cop's opinion probably isn't necessarily reliable, either.

[Adam White]

True... but by that argument, a single cop's opinion probably isn't necessarily reliable, either.

JSO got a call from a TU reporter (RIP Jessie Lynne Kerr) and clearly forwarded the question to someone who they thought would provide a reliable answer

Amended & Adopted 8/11/15
Introduced by Council Member Love & Co-sponsored by Council Member Carter and amended by the Rules Committee:

RESOLUTION 2015-547-A
A RESOLUTION HONORING AND COMMENDING JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF'S OFFICE SENIOR OFFICER THOMAS C. EDWARDS FOR 27 YEARS OF EXEMPLARY SERVICE; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

WHEREAS,   Senior Officer Thomas C. Edwards retires from the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office after 27 years of exemplary, widely recognized, dedicated service; and

WHEREAS,   a native of Jacksonville, Officer Edwards was raised on the City's Southside and was a 1983 graduate of Sandalwood High School; and

WHEREAS,   upon high school graduation, Officer Edwards entered the United States Army and embarked on a distinguished, decorated tour of duty in service for his country; and

WHEREAS,   serving as a Military Police Canine Handler at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, Officer Edwards and his K-9 partner, "Pins," participated in numerous dog competitions, placing in the top three K-9 teams in the United States Canine Association Dog Trials Region 11 (Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri); he and his K-9 partner subsequently participated in the 1985 United States Canine Association  National Dog Trials held in Detroit, Michigan where they finished in the top one third of K-9 teams in the nation; at age 20, Officer Edwards was recognized as the youngest K-9 handler to compete on a national level; and

WHEREAS,   Officer Edwards' military awards include: Army Service Ribbon, Good Conduct Medal, Army Achievement Medal with two oak leaf clusters, and the Army Commendation Medal;

It goes on but you get the idea.  Not just some random officer that picked up the phone that day.

Its funny how opinionated people are around riverside on this issue.  When I point out these facts its like watching conservatives swat away the obvious, myriad data that support climate change being a reality.

"That pole's in weird place.  Hmm...says KEEP RIGHT. Logic be damned!! Straight just feels right ya know? I'm goin straight!!!"

I don't see how any of that has to do with his ability to navigate five points correctly. Maybe he's right. I am no authority on the subject - but I lived there for over 10 years (and had frequented 5 points for far longer) and never got a ticket. All my friends drove through it the same way. And as I've said, I've seen plenty of cops do it, too.

As far as I am aware, the sign relates to driving on Park.

[Adam White]

I don't see how any of that has to do with his ability to navigate five points correctly. Maybe he's right. I am no authority on the subject - but I lived there for over 10 years (and had frequented 5 points for far longer) and never got a ticket. All my friends drove through it the same way. And as I've said, I've seen plenty of cops do it, too.

As far as I am aware, the sign relates to driving on Park.

The keep right signs face all directions.

I'm just saying this guy is reputable, experienced officer who was asked a question by a reporter knowing, in all likelihood, it would be published in the TU, not technically but effectively becoming an official opinion from JSO.

I've never seen a ticket given out and citizens and cops do it every 5 minutes.  BUT it's not technically correct.  That's all I'm sayin.

Without getting some formal proclamation from JSO I'd say Officer Edward's published account is as close to an official ruling as can be found.  But it's hard to overrule one's gut as the intersection reveals so well.  Going straight does seem quite truthy, I must admit.

truth·i·ness
/ˈtro͞oTHēnis/

noun informal the quality of seeming or being felt to be true, even if not necessarily true.

Yeah, it does - and it matters if you are going from Margaret to Park (through 5 points) - that is where the sign points (traffic queued there faces the sign) and you would indeed keep right.