ISIS and the removing of the Civil War Flags, Monuments & Names are a lot alike.

[AKIRA]

The quote you are using has nothing to do with this circumstance, as there is no effort to destroy or repaint the past.  If anything, the prime example of changing the name of Forrest H.S. is more a result of considering the full weight of the past.  Initialing naming the school after Forrest is a better example of repainting the past, when you consider naming a school after a misspent life.

[Spitfire]

I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Confederate Veterans are considered as American Veterans under law. So while I do agree that it is past time to stop honoring the Confederacy as a whole  and the removal of a number of statues/memorials is acceptable and past due, we need to be careful when it comes to Confederate Veterans.

So the Men & women that died in the civil war should we dig up their graves? The federal government has said they will not put Confederate Flags on their graves anymore in national parks. Which I find hard to swallow. Well i can't put a lot of flags on the many graves here in North Florida but I will say a prayer for the fallen. And make sure none of the Confederate graves have been mistreated.

Who said anything about digging up their graves? Are you referring to what's going on with Nathan Forrest? In that situation, he and his wife were dug up from their initial resting place and put to where they are now in the early 1900s. The only thing I would support in that case is that he and his wife are moved back to their original resting places.

Why is it hard to swallow that the Federal Government refuses to glorify anything to do with the Confederacy? As a Veteran, I am 100% behind that decision. There is absolutely NO REASON why a Confederate flag of ANY kind should be flying on government lands. 

I do concur with you that I hope that the defacement that has occurred is just to memorials and not to the graves of the fallen.

[The_Choose_1]

I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Confederate Veterans are considered as American Veterans under law. So while I do agree that it is past time to stop honoring the Confederacy as a whole  and the removal of a number of statues/memorials is acceptable and past due, we need to be careful when it comes to Confederate Veterans.

So the Men & women that died in the civil war should we dig up their graves? The federal government has said they will not put Confederate Flags on their graves anymore in national parks. Which I find hard to swallow. Well i can't put a lot of flags on the many graves here in North Florida but I will say a prayer for the fallen. And make sure none of the Confederate graves have been mistreated.

Who said anything about digging up their graves? Are you referring to what's going on with Nathan Forrest? In that situation, he and his wife were dug up from their initial resting place and put to where they are now in the early 1900s. The only thing I would support in that case is that he and his wife are moved back to their original resting places.

Why is it hard to swallow that the Federal Government refuses to glorify anything to do with the Confederacy? As a Veteran, I am 100% behind that decision. There is absolutely NO REASON why a Confederate flag of ANY kind should be flying on government lands. 

I do concur with you that I hope that the defacement that has occurred is just to memorials and not to the graves of the fallen.

So Spitfire why did it take until 2015 for the Confederate Flags to come off federal government land. All of this came to a head because nine innocent people were killed in a church. It took the federal government 150 after the Civil war to remove the Confederate Flags. No one should ever go to a cemetery and damage any grave....... But I have seen headstones knocked over and fingers broken from statues and even heads remove. See as a photographer I love going to cemeteries around the United States of America. besides most of us will end up in one someday.   

[The_Choose_1]

N.B. Forrest name was changed because he was a Confederate general and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. But some people believe he had a change of heart down near the end of his life.

Fuck that.

NBF was a brutal slave trader, Grand Wizard of the Klan, and personally responsible for one of the worst war crimes in American military history. Hundreds of black soldiers gutted with bayonets after surrendering and throwing down their weapons. Historians write, "Fort Pillow was simply an orgy of death, a mass lynching to satisfy the basest of conduct – intentional murder – for the vilest of reasons – racism and personal enmity."

Seriously, get the hell out with the "change of heart" bullshit.

Lifelong racist killers don't get to have changes of heart, and there's no universe where this guy should ever have anything named in his honor.

This particular instance wasn't a case of changing history, but of overturning a gravely serious wrong.

If you're that concerned about it, name one of your cats "Nathan Bedford" and call it a day.

But don't act like the PC police are being overly sensitive for not wanting impressionable young black Americans to go to a school named after a GRAND WIZARD OF THE KLAN.

So who's next Robert E Lee he owned slaves. So did George Washington so if you carry any one dollar bills in your purse or wallet you should remove them. Where does this end, when all the so called wrongs are forgive. It was wrong to in slave people but during these times it was normal practice. This part of history you can't just wish Never Happen. SO KENFSU WHEN DOES IT END! And My cat is named Snowball he is a pain in the butt Snowshoe that wakes me up too early most mornings.

[thelakelander]

No one is trying to change the name of the Hart Bridge, from honoring the city's founder, because he owned slaves. No one really cares about NB Forrest here in Jax either. An obviously racially motivated ill will from the Civil Rights era was corrected (renaming NB Forrest) and this community has moved on to bigger and better things.

[The_Choose_1]

No one is trying to change the name of the Hart Bridge, from honoring the city's founder, because he owned slaves. No one really cares about NB Forrest here in Jax either. An obviously racially motivated ill will from the Civil Rights era was corrected (renaming NB Forrest) and this community has moved on to bigger and better things.

thelakelander put whatever spin you want to on what you believe as will I.

[strider]

What most know as the Confederate flag was really a battle flag and I suspect the vast majority of the angst over it stems not from the War Between the States but from what that particular flag has been used to stand for since.  Which is of course that idea of white supremacy and that the enslavement of people was/ is ever justified in any way.

The folks put in charge of putting this country back together by President Lincoln had a plan to unite the country and it included such things as land for the freed slaves, honoring the confederate dead equally with the fallen northern solders, allowing the South to take pride in the valor shown by it's solders and it's leaders and doing their best to create a South equal to the North in all ways while creating a country in which freed slave and white privilege had equal footing. While we will never know if that idea would/ could ever work in that time period, the assassination of Lincoln insured that the country would go backwards rather than forward and the South was taken advantage of at every turn.  Which more than likely created the atmosphere of Confederate pride we still sometimes see today.

Perhaps the answer today is to put both flags, the current US one (much different than the one used back then) and the real confederate flag, on the fallen confederate solders.  To allow some mention without criticism of the Confederate dead and leadership, like Robert E Lee, who served with honor - which also perhaps means we should not use some Northern leaders names as they often did not serve with honor - in other words, treat the Confederate solders as the equals to the fallen US solders everywhere.  We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought. What we honor when we honor the fallen in war is the individual sacrifice, made because they believed it to be their duty and honor to do so.

[The_Choose_1]

What most know as the Confederate flag was really a battle flag and I suspect the vast majority of the angst over it stems not from the War Between the States but from what that particular flag has been used to stand for since.  Which is of course that idea of white supremacy and that the enslavement of people was/ is ever justified in any way.

The folks put in charge of putting this country back together by President Lincoln had a plan to unite the country and it included such things as land for the freed slaves, honoring the confederate dead equally with the fallen northern solders, allowing the South to take pride in the valor shown by it's solders and it's leaders and doing their best to create a South equal to the North in all ways while creating a country in which freed slave and white privilege had equal footing. While we will never know if that idea would/ could ever work in that time period, the assassination of Lincoln insured that the country would go backwards rather than forward and the South was taken advantage of at every turn.  Which more than likely created the atmosphere of Confederate pride we still sometimes see today.

Perhaps the answer today is to put both flags, the current US one (much different than the one used back then) and the real confederate flag, on the fallen confederate solders.  To allow some mention without criticism of the Confederate dead and leadership, like Robert E Lee, who served with honor - which also perhaps means we should not use some Northern leaders names as they often did not serve with honor - in other words, treat the Confederate solders as the equals to the fallen US solders everywhere.  We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought. What we honor when we honor the fallen in war is the individual sacrifice, made because they believed it to be their duty and honor to do so.

Thank you for this well thought out comment.

[AKIRA]

"We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought." -Strider

To be historically fair, we can, according to the Nuremberg trials. 

[strider]

"We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought." -Strider

To be historically fair, we can, according to the Nuremberg trials. 

The full "quote": We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought. What we honor when we honor the fallen in war is the individual sacrifice, made because they believed it to be their duty and honor to do so.

While there are indeed exceptions, the fallen solders who followed their leaders were not the ones Nuremberg was really all about. It was far more about the leaders.  While some solders, like the prison guards that liked to torture, were guilty of war crimes, the vast majority of the solders in any conflict were doing nothing but their duty.  Sometimes they didn't like it but they did it anyway.  Sometimes they ended up on the wrong side in history, but that should not lesson their sacrifice. My Father was a prisoner of war and liked his enemies, the Germans. Because the vast majority of those he came in contact with had honor. Because we won, should that lesson the average German solder's sacrifice?  My Father would say no. The leadership that brought us to that war would be a different story and should and were held accountable.

I know that some to this day hate the Germans or hate the Japanese, as an example.  And yet, what good is that?  How does that help anyone at all?  They were solders.  If there were crimes against humanity, prove it and make those guilty pay.  Holding every solder accountable for what amounts to the bad actions of the few helps no one. And to be honest, the only reason an equal number of the "good guys" were not found guilty of equal or worse crimes against humanity is that the "good guys" won.  Should we then not honor any of the fallen?

I have had the privilege of knowing a few true heroes.  What I learned from them is simple.  None of them hated their enemies.  Quite the opposite, they respected them.  And none of them chose to be that hero.  The true heroes of any war are often the first to forgive their enemies and to honor the fallen on both sides.

From what I have read and been told, that is true of any war.

[Spitfire]

In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra, I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.

[The_Choose_1]

In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra, I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.

Any change to History is wrong!

[Adam White]

In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra, I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.

you can't.  Its just dumb.

I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.

[The_Choose_1]

In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra, I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.

you can't.  Its just dumb.

So removing monuments is not changing history. Removing the Confederate Flags from all National parks is truly dumb.  The different races can have their Heritage but the Southerns can't 150 years later because we lost? BS! Why don't you go to the Southern Heritage Festival The Farm OffRoad Park - 284 Croxton Cross Road Smithville, Ga 31787

Aug. 28th - 30th If You Have Had Enough of them trying to erase our southern heritage, stripp us of our rights, and the way are government is being run - Come on out and let your voice be heard, and by all means Fly Your Flags both Ole Glory & The Confederate Flags !! Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy. We will also have a Saturday afternoon Flag Ride from the festival to a nearby historical confederate site and back, Live Music, Late Night Party and dancing with D N D "s very own DJ's - Rob & Charles, a spot for mud trucks to bogg we will have plenty of room and miles of trails for ATV's and Golf Carts, Primitive Camping for RV's & Tents. BBQ Competition, Corn Hole Competition, and all kind of fun events, food venders will be on site. Gates open at 5pm Thursday August 27th for those who would like to arrive early to set you RV's / campsites up. $30 for adults children 12 & under free this covers you for the entire weekend. And maybe you may learn something how Real Southern's feel.

I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.

[The_Choose_1]

They what to change History no different then removing the Civil War Flag, Monuments & Names of past Generals on Schools.

No, see, that's the thing. It's completely different and this is either a great trolling attempt or literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

I'm not a troll and we each have an Opinion. You my not agree with mine. We are taught to think not just take what Stephen Dare or others believe is the truth?