A Tour of Bartram Park

[Metro Jacksonville]

A Tour of Bartram Park



The 'Southern Gateway' to Jacksonville, Bartram Park is a master planned 2,600 acre mixed-use development adjacent to Interstate 95.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/896

[stjohnsguy]

Cookie cutter....same old Florida crap....Go to 5 other Florida cities cant tell the difference.No Architecture!!!!!

[thelakelander]

While Bartram is definately cookie-cutter, cookie-cutter can also become a part of a sustainable community if designed right.  Imo, there are some elements that make Bartram a text book example of what to avoid as Jax continues to grow.

1. The arterial road system.  Although it provides two main entrances miles apart, each individual multifamily community comes with its own entry gate, making them impossible to move between.  So instead of embracing some sort of street grid that would give the community the feel of a neighborhood, each development feels like an individual apartment complex.

2. Building setbacks.  The buildings are too far from the main road, making walkability difficult and the area seem like a modern Southside Blvd.

3. Mixing of uses.  Although marketed as "mixed-use", its segregated.  The commercial component comes in the form of two typical strip centers (one hasn't been built yet) miles apart with a ton of individual gated multi-family developments in between.  There's no community center or sense of place.  Instead it feels more like the stretch of Baymeadows between San Jose and Philips.

The major problem with continuing to allow this style of development is that once the newness wears off, there's nothing special to keep it from going the same route former suburban hotspots like Arlington, Emerson and Lem Turner.  Even with cookie-cutter architecture, if it successfully handles the three things discussed above, it gives off a completely different vibe.  At some point, if we want things to change for the better, we're going to have to demand more, in terms of public poicy.

[fsujax]

What is so special about that place? It's multi-use but not mixed-use. I'll take Springfield any day over that.

[Abhishek]

it is just another sprawl, only town homes not single-family. I agree with lakelander. That place is very car dependent and there is nothing walkable about it.

[archiphreak]

I teach one day a week down at SJRCC, and I have to drive past this going to and coming home.  I want to vomit each time.  Seeing places like this makes me want to become a tax attorney or something other than an Architect in the state of Florida.  All of these developers should be burned at the stake for shoving this kind of crap down our throats.  It's sickening.

[Abhishek]

glad to have you back archiphreak

[cline]

All of these developers should be burned at the stake for shoving this kind of crap down our throats.  It's sickening.

Perhaps you should direct your anger towards the willing buyers of this type of development rather than the developers.  Until consumers decide that they would rather live closer to the urban core, this type of development will continue.
 

[Jason]

I need to snap a shot of the beautiful plastic fence along I95.  So classy!

[willydenn]

All of these developers should be burned at the stake for shoving this kind of crap down our throats.  It's sickening.

Perhaps you should direct your anger towards the willing buyers of this type of development rather than the developers.  Until consumers decide that they would rather live closer to the urban core, this type of development will continue.
 

Cline,
Unfortunately you have a point.  That place really sucks.

[thelakelander]

Its not the buyers, its the policy makers and it has little to do with living in the urban core.  We're raping the natural beauty of our community and straining our infrastructure and resources in the process.  Even with bad architecture, we can create a better community by making sure our zoning and land use requirements demand better results.

[apvbguy]

I teach one day a week down at SJRCC, and I have to drive past this going to and coming home.  I want to vomit each time.  Seeing places like this makes me want to become a tax attorney or something other than an Architect in the state of Florida.  All of these developers should be burned at the stake for shoving this kind of crap down our throats.  It's sickening.

This isn't directed at you so please don't take offense,  but it is aimed at everyone who whines about projects like this after the fact. Unfortunately this is a typical emotional response! and it is an ineffective response.

is the place nice? I don't think so, is this how I would develop the property, i don't think so. But my money wasn't involved so I  or any other "outsiders' don't have too much of a say in the style of the development. (before you say wrong read on)
The developer feels that this type of development will provide the best return on his investment, in this country people are still allowed to maximize their profit potential, within the boundaries of the laws.

The proper way to attack projects like this is speak up and have input before they sprout up, people need to get involved with projects like this in the planning stages and from what little I know about how the game is played here in NE FLA I can see that there is little to no oversight or public participation during the planning stages of most projects.

Doesn't Duval have a planning board, or some other development oversight board? if they do (and I am certain that there is some form of board) doesn't the board hold hearings regarding their planning/zoning and land use decisions? If they do hold hearings (and I am sure that they do) that is the time for "outsiders" ie: the public to have their say as to the location, design, impact, density and almost any other facet of any proposed development. Once the place is built any complaining is just a waste of energy.

Again this is aimed at nobody in particular, but so much time and intellectual energy is wasted babbling about lipstick on a pig and other nonsense that we really can little impact on and very little effort is put into how crooked local officials team up with developers to "rape and pillage" when it comes to land use and development issues.
Are you tired of congestion, tired of more strip malls? tired of sprawl? learn how to take on the developers in their own venues and work for reasonable development or one day you'll wake up and find JAX looking like NJ

[cline]

Its not the buyers, its the policy makers and it has little to do with living in the urban core.  We're raping the natural beauty of our community and straining our infrastructure and resources in the process.  Even with bad architecture, we can create a better community by making sure our zoning and land use requirements demand better results.

I can agree with that to an extent.  Unfortunately, policy makers are often directed by elected officials who are influenced by citizens (consumers as well as developers).  If individuals are telling elected officials this is what they want then the policies will reflect that.

[reednavy]

The only positive part is the large JACKSONVILLE on the overpass. This development will be A LONG WAY from being built out. The Pulte property has had little activity since last year.

[Captain Zissou]

The only positive part is the large JACKSONVILLE on the overpass. This development will be A LONG WAY from being built out. The Pulte property has had little activity since last year.

I agree completely, the Jacksonville sign and the well manicured I-95 and Old St Augustine interchange are the best parts of this project.   I worked next to Baptist South this summer and it was great to drive through such a nice interchange.  Other than that, the project is awful.