Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed

[jcjohnpaint]

I heard someone say a water park
Someone needs to take that person outside and beat them with a book. 
Because everyone goes to Manhattan for a trip to the water park!

[simms3]

The good news is that according to recent comments from both Aundra Wallace and Mark Lamping, progress is moving ahead relatively smoothly.  The bad news is that Jax doesn't have anywhere near the urban vision, creativity, or funding that SF has.

SF has its own obstacles.  In fact, I'd argue the obstacle of NIMBYism in SF is every bit as much of an obstacle as "lack of vision" that Jax has.  Part of the reason that SF is the most expensive place in the entire country is because of NIMBYism, which is at its most extreme in this city, by a mile.  Funding can be found if the project is worthy.

SF being a waterfront port city with a very industrial past, it is a great example for Jax to learn from in how to develop its various public waterfronts.  Jax city leaders love to travel and "learn" from other cities.  Perhaps they should skip out on the next Kansas City trip and go to San Francisco to meet with the mayor, the Planning Commission, and groups like Lennar Urban, Forest City, and the Giants Organization to figure out how they are financing these projects and what their development process is, what the city is requiring and why, how they are marketing, etc etc.

[thelakelander]

^I'll be in SF for a few days in 2 weeks. Anything I should try to check out while I'm there?

[CCMjax]

I heard someone say a water park
Someone needs to take that person outside and beat them with a book. 
Because everyone goes to Manhattan for a trip to the water park!

Ha ha!  I read that someone suggested that at the Landing meeting last night.  That's right up there with the dude who proposed constructing the world's largest replica of Noah's Arc at the Shipyards.

[tufsu1]

^ and the paper jumped on it as the headline to the article....genius!

[UNFurbanist]

I heard someone say a water park
Someone needs to take that person outside and beat them with a book. 
Because everyone goes to Manhattan for a trip to the water park!

Ha ha!  I read that someone suggested that at the Landing meeting last night.  That's right up there with the dude who proposed constructing the world's largest replica of Noah's Arc at the Shipyards.

^ and the paper jumped on it as the headline to the article....genius!

Ya,I was at the meeting and I couldn't stop myself from laughing at that one. To be honest I thought the meeting was very weird, so many old people from the suburbs that wanted to take it back to the 80's. At 22 I was the youngest person there by far and while some of the ideas were legitimately great, others gave me serious heartburn. Someone at my table wanted it to be like Downtown Disney or City Walk at Universal! He also was very obviously afraid of the "problem people" downtown and suggested we somehow magically move them somewhere else. Crazy. I tried but I think the millennial perspective was pretty overlooked. 

[thelakelander]

You did better than me. I popped in briefly. However, once I saw it was going to be a charrette (one of what seems like 1,000 for this site since I've been in town), I left that blue sweatbox. At this point, I'm more interested to see what the firms hired, officially come up with, moreso than me and every Tom, Dick, and Harry in town, tossing out our wildest dreams on tracing paper.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

...every Tom, Dick, and Harry in town, tossing out our wildest dreams on tracing paper.

IF they were forced to use tracing paper instead of MSPaint, then I bet we'd at least get some of their wildest feasible dreams. 

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

I heard someone say a water park
Someone needs to take that person outside and beat them with a book. 
Because everyone goes to Manhattan for a trip to the water park!

Ha ha!  I read that someone suggested that at the Landing meeting last night.  That's right up there with the dude who proposed constructing the world's largest replica of Noah's Arc at the Shipyards.

^ and the paper jumped on it as the headline to the article....genius!

Ya,I was at the meeting and I couldn't stop myself from laughing at that one. To be honest I thought the meeting was very weird, so many old people from the suburbs that wanted to take it back to the 80's. At 22 I was the youngest person there by far and while some of the ideas were legitimately great, others gave me serious heartburn. Someone at my table wanted it to be like Downtown Disney or City Walk at Universal! He also was very obviously afraid of the "problem people" downtown and suggested we somehow magically move them somewhere else. Crazy. I tried but I think the millennial perspective was pretty overlooked.

Welcome to one of the central problems in dealing with redevelopment.  Most millenials would like something outdoorsish with good digital connections and amenities, comfortable places to work/hangout, cafes and places for interaction.  They aren't terrified of the gays, blacks, poors, olds, foreigners, etc. 

The gays and the olds are the problem with DT for these people? So ridiculous.  Always baiting people.

[UNFurbanist]

I really wasn't meaning to "bait" anyone. I was just saying that the demographic in the room seemed to me to really just favor one particular argument. If anything that is the fault of young people being apathetic. But, at my table specifically two older gentlemen really took over the conversation and pushed their ideas on us while not letting anyone else speak much. That eventually reflected itself in the end discussion. Nothing very visionary or that exciting for my age group. Again, some ideas were cool and I could totally agree with, others however I just think really missed the mark and there was no counter vision.

[Ajax]

I really wasn't meaning to "bait" anyone. I was just saying that the demographic in the room seemed to me to really just favor one particular argument. If anything that is the fault of young people being apathetic. But, at my table specifically two older gentlemen really took over the conversation and pushed their ideas on us while not letting anyone else speak much. That eventually reflected itself in the end discussion. Nothing very visionary or that exciting for my age group. Again, some ideas were cool and I could totally agree with, others however I just think really missed the mark and there was no counter vision.

What were some of the cool ideas that were mentioned? 

[UNFurbanist]

Well most people agreed on opening it to Laura st. which I think is good. Another idea was basically moving the current stage onto a barge (hope they can learn form the south bank barge) and making a grassy amphitheater in the middle. Grocery store/ daily farmers market was popular, the need for mixed use and apartments was pretty agreed upon. Lots of people wanted to remove the main st. bridge ramp for more space to the east. One person advocated for stores to be local retailers and entrepreneur offices. Expanding the riverwalk and making that central with a more botanical garden feel I thought sounded nice. The general idea of bars and restaurant space was important. Other than all that I was happy to hear that everyone thought it should be "iconic" even if that meant vastly different things to different people.

[downtownbrown]

I think it's because that is what has been fed to the public for the last several years.  The notion that the Landing has "its back on downtown" was always some architect's wild hair.

[UNFurbanist]

I mean I kinda get it. In a way it seams uninviting from Laura st. it can feel like you're coming in the back door. Do I think it's everything and wildly important? No. But I think that good design from all angles is important so having an open promenade or something through the center might be a nice addition. I still think UNF's student union is a cool example they could look at.

[thelakelander]

Opening the courtyard to Laura Street makes a lot of sense. Nevertheless, UNFurbanist's review is exactly why I left. All of those "good ideas" have been mentioned for years now.  In fact, all of them can be accommodated in Sleiman's Landing plan that many here hated:



The market (or heavy public subsidies) will ultimately determine the proper mix of realistic uses. Seems the main issue is how to fit them on the site in a layout/design that's walkable, yet still accommodating to autocentric Jax.