How Five Points' success leads the way for urban revitalization

[iMarvin]

How Five Points' success leads the way for urban revitalization

Walking down Park Street on a recent Friday night, Larry Simcox was just looking for a place to eat.

He didn't know the Five Points neighborhood; the visitor from Jacksonville didn't know Jacksonville at all.

"We told the Uber driver, 'Take us to a place with bars, a place we can have fun and stay safe,'" Simcox said. "'Take us to a good place to hang out.'"

Just a few years ago, that wouldn't have happened.

Read the full article at: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/print-edition/2015/01/23/how-five-points-success-leads-the-way-for-urban.html?ana=sm_jac_ucp47&b=1421948162%5E16425121&page=all

[IrvAdams]

Very positive article. This area is a huge comeback and an inspirational success story.

I hadn't thought about the connections between 5 Points and the Brooklyn buildup, but when finished, Brooklyn will indeed provide a catalyst that could create a connective bridge leading from this hot spot to the original area of the Downtown Core.

Then all you would need is reliable mass transit along this strip.

[ChriswUfGator]

They're about to screw it up with a bunch of 'improvements' like one-way streets, so enjoy it while it lasts...

[Dog Walker]

One way streets in Riverside?!!!!  Time for the pitchforks and torches!

Where did you hear this?  Let's backtrack to the source and strangle the idea in its cradle.

[ChriswUfGator]

This was the original thread about the study that recommended it:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=20854.0

I then read somewhere recently, either in the resident or the business journal I think, that most of what was recommended would be implemented by the city. Which concerns me, given our extensive local history of trying to fix what isn't broken, usually ending in disaster. I think its current configuration works fine, and despite everyone's cry over pedestrian safety, I am unaware of any significant number of people (or any people at all, to my knowledge) being run over in 5 points. It seems to me that what is there is working fine, as it has for going on 100 years, and we should avoid interfering with it.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Typical keeping up with the Jones'....

San Marco got it's act together and made the square feel more friendly and open with the expansion of the park, and 5 points is trying to follow rather than lead. 

I was at one of the open meetings at SunRay when they were getting resident input.  There were a bunch of good ideas, and I don't think that making Lomax one way from the intersection on is a bad idea, but IMO, they need to create their own identity and not try to piggy-back off an idea that worked across the river.

I'm also a fan of reverting College and Post back to one way streets from Margaret to King.  "But people will just drive faster...."  Not if you tighten the lane down with angled parking on one side and a soft barrier protected bike land on the other and then reduce the speed to 25mph through that corridor.  Not sure if that's a city or state thing, though.

[Charles Hunter]

I don't see the one block of Lomax being one-way as the end of the world.

Interesting idea on Post and College, a cycle track is a good idea, and angled parking can accommodate more cars than parallel (I think). Wonder what RAP's response will be, after they fought so hard to get them to be 2-way.  These are city streets, now.  The state gave them to the city when they were changed from 1-way to 2-way.

[ChriswUfGator]

2 way streets are better, one way streets are a device to intentionally screw up the traffic pattern in an effort to reduce traffic. Sure there are excuses for why it's something else, but at the end of the day that's the motivation and the result. Again it's working why screw with it.

[thelakelander]

Typical keeping up with the Jones'....

San Marco got it's act together and made the square feel more friendly and open with the expansion of the park, and 5 points is trying to follow rather than lead. 

I was at one of the open meetings at SunRay when they were getting resident input.  There were a bunch of good ideas, and I don't think that making Lomax one way from the intersection on is a bad idea, but IMO, they need to create their own identity and not try to piggy-back off an idea that worked across the river.

I'm also a fan of reverting College and Post back to one way streets from Margaret to King.  "But people will just drive faster...."  Not if you tighten the lane down with angled parking on one side and a soft barrier protected bike land on the other and then reduce the speed to 25mph through that corridor.  Not sure if that's a city or state thing, though.

This is pretty common  in bike friendly cities like DC and Philadelphia. If you want to slow traffic down, just reduce the speed limit and throw up four way stop signs at every intersection.


Washington, DC


Washington, DC


Washington, DC


Center City Philadelphia


Center City Philadelphia


Center City Philadelphia

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

2 way streets are better, one way streets are a device to intentionally screw up the traffic pattern in an effort to reduce traffic. Sure there are excuses for why it's something else, but at the end of the day that's the motivation and the result. Again it's working why screw with it.

I agree, but in the case of Post & College, they don't seem to be wide enough to accommodate parking on both sides and allow 2-way traffic to pass with any margin for error.  It also doesn't help that there is practically ZERO striping on the roads to give anyone any physical sense of their lane.

I remember before when they were 1-way and they were both essentially dragstrips from 5-points to 17/McDuff, but that was before Stockton and King became viable nightlife areas.  Now that they are destinations, I feel that a move back to 1-way might actually make sense when done in the context I mentioned and that Ennis provided in pictures.

[UNFurbanist]

Does anyone have pictures from a time that 5 points wasn't very nice? Maybe the 1980's? I am trying to do a project on gentrification here in Jacksonville. Thanks

[Know Growth]

Does anyone have pictures from a time that 5 points wasn't very nice? Maybe the 1980's? I am trying to do a project on gentrification here in Jacksonville. Thanks

**** 1980 Five Points; Same Thing Only Different! ***

Gosh,having moved from North Miami in 1979, I soon set foot on Five Points soon after. "Nice"? Well,yes! "Cool". You know..... Five Points! "Wasn't very nice"? A matter of propensity. After all, Clay and St Johns county were surging "ahead",Siren call for an and all NE Florida newcomers.Even those from Miami.Particularly.

I would eventually meet a girl who had worked at Fans & Stoves circa 1980/82.....very successful. Edge City was there then. Wall Street. The News Stand ,now part of.....Derby House,which has been there forever.Sit at the Derby House 'outside' bar,about middle way,and you are at the former  News Stand wall magazine display where Time,Reader's Digest, Southern Living and Field & Stream magazines morphed to Racier titles.The area between the Derby House and the News Stand was crudy back in the 80's,and well past. And the Italian place,still there. Boger Shoes. Petersons Five & Dime. Goodes Bakery perhaps. The name seems familiar. And a Theatre....A Pharmacy.Riverside Liquors. Maybe even the out of place Wendy's,modern 80's Yuk!!!

Even "back then",the walking and bike riding was wonderful. The place always radiated energy and attraction, venues to seek from breakfast,drink,shopping.  Ancient City.

Too bad my wife's family's bakery circa 1930's is no longer there.

And so sorry UNFurbanist- although I am a photo bug,I have precious few photos of the 80's era Five Points.Some things one takes as wonderfully routine. But maybe some- if I can pull any photos up I'll send you a message.

If the place had not been "Nice" back then I would have bailed out long ago.

In fact,the 80's Five Points era was  sho' am good!
Shifts happen.

[mtraininjax]

I'm also a fan of reverting College and Post back to one way streets from Margaret to King.  "But people will just drive faster...."  Not if you tighten the lane down with angled parking on one side and a soft barrier protected bike land on the other and then reduce the speed to 25mph through that corridor.  Not sure if that's a city or state thing, though.

Those people who want to keep 2-way streets, move to Mandarin or the Southside where the streets are about a football field wide! Your 2-way works there. Here in the urban landscape, we gotta move with the times. Build the bike/bus/electric vehicle lanes and then educate, educate, educate.

How many more cars need to be side-swiped or how many more JTA buses do we need to pass within inches of cars before someone, somewhere listens to reason?

Back to the thread.....

Downtown will go NOWHERE, until a Fresh Market or Publix opens within the core of downtown. Yeah, there is a Dirty Dixie near Union Street, but that is a long ways away from the core and the DD is not mentioned much by hipsters. Since there is the Publix anchor in Riverside, Fresh Market in Brooklyn, naturally it would/should be someone else downtown. But downtown will not grow more with residents until there is a reliable place to shop for groceries.

Tony cracks me up, he just wants downtown to catch on fire, but it won't until it can be fed by more than restaurants.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Those people who want to keep 2-way streets...

Those people, I assume, are predominantly the ones using those streets as thoroughfares to begin with and have little or no concern for the residents in mind.

[Debbie Thompson]

The property values were depressed along Post and College when they were one way, because commuters tore down them like they were expressways. Same as Union and State now.  People behind me don't like it much when I slow down to turn north into Springfield, angry because I held up their beeline for the Mathews Bridge by a few seconds in my attempts to get home.  I'd be willing to bet the people who live on Post and College like them much better two ways.  Oh, and going back another 10 years from Know Growth, we lived in Riverside in 1971, rode our bikes to Goode's Bakery on Saturdays for apple fritters, shopped at Edge City and ate at the Derby House and Pizza Italian.  It wasn't as "cool" as it is now, but it wasn't a dump either.