New Avondale Restaurant Proposed: Not Everyone Happy

[Know Growth]

[quote author=thelakelander  approved,                              with conditions,                     yesterday.
[/quote]

[MusicMan]

1. Another restaurant in Avondale?

2. I hate the 'poop' brown tile on the exterior of the existing structure, incredibly ugly.

3. I normally agree with reuse instead of tear down, but this is a horrible building that has been transformed into  a mess. I have no problem with this being removed.

4. I really wish Mellow had bought this place. Or see a small grocery store like Grassroots in there. With a coffee and juice bar it could have been a huge addition to the neighborhood.

[mbwright]

anybody have pics of what this looked like when new?  I bet it looked better then.

[avonjax]

I live two blocks from this structure and it looks like shit!  Anything would be an improvement. 

What street do you live on?
I lived about a block and a half away for 20 years and I agree with you completely.
I love the new design concept and I think it would be great for that corner. Never did like that dirt and mud parking lot in the back of the building anyway....

[Dog Walker]

3 people per car average? Where does that come from?

Finger-in-the-wind projection.  Probably more like 2.5 people per car, but that would be messy!  Most people going out to eat are couples, sometimes, but less often two couples together.  I am sure that some urban planner like Ennis has done the actual survey to project needed parking based on the number of seats in a restaurant and how often they turn over.

[CityLife]

It varies by municipality. COJ and Neptune Beach require 1 space per every 4 seats with 1 space for every 2 employees. SJC is 1 for every 3 seats. Jax Beach is 1 for every 100 square feet. Atlantic Beach is 1 for every 4 seats.

There is no exact scientific formula to determine how many spaces each individual restaurant will need. As Jax's codes are written, a restaurant in Riverside needs as many spaces as one at Atlantic and Kernan.

[Live_Oak]

Doesn't the RA overlay allow the parking requirements to be cut in half?  That's how they get to 37 required spots based on 250 seats and 20 employees.

[CityLife]

^That may be the case. I'll look it up real quick.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

It varies by municipality. COJ and Neptune Beach require 1 space per every 4 seats with 1 space for every 2 employees. SJC is 1 for every 3 seats. Jax Beach is 1 for every 100 square feet. Atlantic Beach is 1 for every 4 seats.

There is no exact scientific formula to determine how many spaces each individual restaurant will need. As Jax's codes are written, a restaurant in Riverside needs as many spaces as one at Atlantic and Kernan.

I bolded the part that confuses me....

Many average sized, 7-day a week restaurants may have over 80 employees, but during any given service, there is typically only a 1/3 of that actually working.  Does the parking requirement take that into consideration? 

Is based up a Full Occupancy staff or total employees?  That would be a tremendous difference.

[CityLife]

NRW, Code says, "One space for each four seats in public rooms plus one space for each two employees."

I don't know how COJ's staff and OGC actually apply that provision in practice, but it has to be difficult to enforce. It is very easy to determine how many seats a restaurant has. Not so much when it comes to # of employees.

[jcjohnpaint]

Azalea Drive

[Thad Crowe]

Hi everyone, I tried this once but must have messed it up. Learning. The infamous Thad Crowe, here, not trying to be too annoying & not being compensated for anything, but we do own a little house on Eloise St., currently occupied by daughter, and the necessities of kids tuitions & marriages and the need to downsize (hey, nobody gets rich as an urban planner) is leading Anita & I to move back to Avondale. Not the fancy mansion Avondale, but the down-to-earth bungalow Avondale, which we love and where we lived in the 90s during the crazier days of Yesterdays, the weird Boone Park cops-gays standoffs, and the presence of two abandoned homes on our street. More gritty & urban than now I think. Yes I know Susan Fraser, but only professionally. And I learned the hard way that it is best to work for free in your neighborhood, that's just my viewpoint, RAP always needs volunteers. OK, parking & design. I agree that most restaurant trips are probably couples, so the one parking space per four seats underrepresents parking. And keep in mind that Park & Dancy has 22 marked on-street spaces, compared to 167 at the Shoppes & 246 at Park & King (Gyhabi parking study). So on a good night there will be a hundred and maybe many more cars looking for parking spaces on Eloise, Walsh, Valencia, Dancy, Wolfe, Ingleside, & rennssalaer. On these narrow streets with small lots most folks park one car in driveway & one on street. So there will be more competition for those spaces. I know that is not the end of the world, and I think its great that folks will be walking around the neighborhood, enjoying the architecture & trees. But there will be some adjustment required, whether this is a 100 or a 250-seat restaurant. Because Yesterday's has been closed for years, and when it was open it was usually dead except for the occasional crazy blow-outs. (I also think that the Boone Park tennis court parking can provide a great place for parking, one block away.) On to design. I know that architecture can be very subjective, but the narrow windows of the proposed restaurant to me evoke gun turrets, or at best suburban office building. Not close to the welcoming, wide storefront windows so prevalent for contributing & noncontributing retail & restaurant buildings in historic districts. And despite public & RAP support of the storefronts, the preservation board last Wed. deferred to their fellow architect and rejected the storefront requirement that has been made of other infill commercial buildings in Riverside Avondale. With a vague recommendation to staff to "work something out" by pairing the windows or something. There are other ways to dress up a corner entrance than marching skinny windows away from it. Again, my opinion only. Peace & Out!

[thelakelander]

Thad, welcome to the site and thanks for the explanation of your views, and potential solutions given, regarding this project.

[Thad Crowe]

You are welcome, it is my pleasure - I really like MJ and feel like a troll for not getting on sooner. The discussion is very good. The only thing I would add is that at the pres. board public hearing it came out that the building would have sort of a whitewashed brick exterior.

[fieldafm]

Thanks for coming on and expanding on your letter.

I agree that most restaurant trips are probably couples, so the one parking space per four seats underrepresents parking.

So, are you saying that you think the Overlay is too lenient on parking requirements? I think, and the data supports, that overall both the City and RA have an oversupply of parking.

(I also think that the Boone Park tennis court parking can provide a great place for parking, one block away.)

I agree. Would you be in favor of amending the Overlay to allow for off site shared parking agreements to meet peak demand?