Deutsche Bank considers Southbank in site search

[Noone]

Per JBJ, an addendum was added which resulted in the delay. Seems like this has always been known, but either perhaps not included by error or being added to delay it for other reasons unknown.


The addendum provides more information about access to the property, which is only accessible via the adjacent Duval County Public Schools property, JEA spokeswoman Gerri Boyce said.

Let's all hope that it is a positive addendum and will tell the world to Visit Jacksonville and Welcome to Actionville.

Will this area encompass the vision of the CRA/DIA  that will make Downtown a Destination and not a pass through?

What an opportunity for a Public, Private, Partnership with JEA and the DCPS in an active 24/7 access point that was a Tom Ingram recommendation during a previous FIND grant application process for a SUP (Stand Up Paddleboard), kayak launch. Very positive.

DB- Downtown Barricade?

DB- Downtown's Bustling?

[edjax]

Per JBJ the opening of bids delayed again. Now sometime this fall. They are stating now the delay due to the land swap issue and getting that in place and also to see more about school board potentially willing to move.

[ProjectMaximus]

lol. Good thing, as an urban core advocate for Jax I've learned to have...patience.

[iMarvin]

Deutsche Bank focuses site search in Southside area

After another trip to London and another gathering of city and corporate leaders, speculation continues about where Deutsche Bank might land a major consolidated office campus in Jacksonville.

Southside, specifically the Gate Parkway area, continues to dominate the expectations.

As of early 2014, Deutsche Bank was interested in the Downtown Southbank JEA site, among other locations, in its site search.

That JEA site's prospective developer, Peter Rummell, says he understands the financial services giant has turned its attention to property near St. Johns Town Center.

Rummell, who is negotiating to buy and develop the JEA site, said Monday he has heard that Deutsche Bank wants to make a deal for land near the Town Center, which is off Butler Boulevard and Gate Parkway.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544339

[simms3]

^^^The trend continues - financial services firms are focused heavily on the suburbs in their non-core markets.  SLC, Denver, Phoenix all have major operations of one firm or another in their suburbs.  Not a good way to attract top talent - they'll continue to go to the hubs in NYC/Jersey, Chicago, SF, and Boston.

Clearly all about cutting costs in these markets, not about fielding the bulk or the best of their operations.

[CityLife]

I talked to a manager/director level employee at DB over the weekend, and heard the same thing. He told me that many of the employees at DB lobbied heavily to stay on the Southside. He said many of them live near their current offices or at the Beach/SJC and don't want to have longer commutes to work.

His level of confidence was close to 100% that they wouldn't be moving DT or to the southbank.

[thelakelander]

Then another coup for Jax's emerging edge city. Not all are willing to go to DT.

[simms3]

^^^Wow, so the mentality of their employees is either stemming from a longer term view of "we have families, kids, etc and don't care about DT Jax [which in and of itself is different from the financial centers where often people who are 40 don't even have kids yet and devote their time to work]", or it's a bunch of young people who were recruited to work in the Jax office on a short term basis (2 yrs) and don't see themselves there long anyway (as their hope is to transfer up and out).

That still blows my mind, overall.  Here in the Bay Area where things can be more spread out AND about 10x denser, with 1-2 highways to choose from, which creates relatively insane traffic snarls, employees in Silicon Valley who don't have the option of working in an SF office still live in SF and make the commute down each day (hence ballooning commuter rail ridership, traffic leaving the city, and about 50,000 people on private shuttles/"Google buses".  Employees are dedicated to the city (also why DT Palo Alto is more of a hub for VC now than Sand Hill Rd in Menlo Park).

Different strokes for different folks I guess.  Weird mentalities there - that's a sign that there are fundamental road blocks to downtown redevelopment EVER happening, if you can't get a bunch of young DB employees to want to work downtown in a more cohesive environment and their view is that the Town Center is better.

Is it mainly a bunch of UF/FSU/UM grads who have never worked in a downtown before?  Penn grads all do 1-2 summer associate rotations for big firms in NYC, so they've all basically worked in a downtown environment before graduating.  Is it a bunch of family members?  Are most DB Jax employees past the DT stage and they actually want the suburban Jax environment because they've already "settled down" and are raising families (not that DT Jax or surrounding environs is the least bit hectic at all)?

Just trying to grasp here as dense "financial districts" in New York, Boston, Chicago, and SF sprung up for reasons that are basically antonymous to the one off suburban campus idea that DB is implementing.

[Josh]

I talked to a manager/director level employee at DB over the weekend, and heard the same thing. He told me that many of the employees at DB lobbied heavily to stay on the Southside. He said many of them live near their current offices or at the Beach/SJC and don't want to have longer commutes to work.

That's the same thing I hear just about any time one of these large companies is rumored to be relocating downtown. Upper management at these companies skews heavily toward the beaches and country clubs, and doesn't want to increase their commute times.

[Tacachale]

I know several people who work at DB and they all live on the Southside or the Beach. Of the younger folks, you've got people who've signed leases or bought property there at least partially because it's close(r) to work. They know the area and it compares favorably to Downtown for them.

But as Josh says, I expect the real push is coming from older folks and management types; they've often moved here from elsewhere and established themselves in the Southside or St. Johns to have access to the schools and "safer" neighborhoods for their family. Downtown has little appeal for them and a longer drive.

[vicupstate]

Sounds like it is a real chicken and egg situation.  The city really needs to stop pursuing the one trick pony 'wonder deals' to magically transform DT, and instead create an environment for organic growth that is based on things that only a true urban core can provide. 

[CityLife]

Simms, the person I talked to has been with DB for a long time and came from their NYC offices. He said most of the DB employees that moved here when DB relocated to Jax moved to the Beaches, Southside, and SJC. Said they are all rooted in those areas now. The way he explained, it is the long term DB employees (who I assume are all in management roles) that are most against it.

I've said this on here before, but the same thing happened when Fidelity Investments moved to Jax. All the management types that relocated from around the country moved to golf club communities or the beaches to be closer to their Gate Parkway offices (right behind Tinseltown), and are now entrenched in those areas. As a result, I doubt Fidelity would ever move to the urban core. Note for those that don't know, Fidelity Investments is not the Fidelity that is on Riverside Ave.

When we get major corporate relocations and want them downtown, it is much easier to make it happen when they first move. Once employees get settled in the burbs, its over. St. Johns County should cut COJ a check for $10 million for all the new upper middle class residents its gotten from Jax's corporate relocations on the Southside.

[RattlerGator]

I guess I should give up on simms3 recognizing those areas of town represent the American Dream for the vast majority of Americans. In Jacksonville or most anywhere else in this great country.

There are very few places in the United States where people of means would choose to live in an urban core environment when a desirable suburban locale exists close to beaches, parks, shopping, etc. Where this is not true, those urban places are the exception, not the rule, and it is foolish to continue insisting otherwise or dreaming otherwise.

For sensible folks, that's not a criticism of Jax, it's a recognition of a Southern, Sun Belt and Florida reality. Which means it is a  sensible recognition that our urban core can't mimic San Francisco, Chicago or New York -- nor should it.

[simms3]

^^^That's a pretty bold statement to make that the vast majority of Americans want to live in a sprawling cookie cutter subdivision surrounded by strip malls, chain stores, and golf courses.

That's a lifestyle that Jax does really really well, and overall Jax (and FL/TX, etc) are cheap cheap cheap compared to the big cities.  But the big cities are super expensive for a reason - much of which has to do with their demand not only on a domestic scale, but a global one.  Many people moving from NY and CA to FL or TX are doing so for financial considerations, not necessarily because NY and CA don't represent the "American Dream".  Lots of people who own a $400K 3BR house on an Arnold Palmer course in suburban Jacksonville, FL might trade that for a 3 BR in New York City, Boston, or San Francisco if it came at the same price.

I get the notion that Sr management is engrained in their golf course community world, and they're putting kids through school, etc etc.  I alluded to that, and that's normal.  In some markets, Sr management has to give way to their workforce, though, if they want to compete in recruitment.  Both finance and tech have acknowledged this.  My own company is an example of this, in that we are located in CT for tax reasons and don't even field a large Manhattan office, but most of my peers (associates, analysts, young VPs) reverse commute in from the city, and our CEO jokes that you can find a huge mansion in Greenwich for the price of an average 2-3 BR co-op in the city.

And RE young people, overwhelming evidence supports the notion that they prefer, larger, more urban markets (or budding urban markets such as Denver/Portland).  Jacksonville does not fare so well when looked through the lens of where young people, particularly educated/mobile young people are moving or desiring to move.

So I think that speaks to DB's operations in Jax - they are purely cost cutting, not some new big central hub meant to attract the bulk of the Penn grads and Wharton grads being scooped up by banks and other financial firms.  I guess it's a good place for transferring mid to upper management types, and then recruiting from FL/southern schools (folks that may be a little more averse to the New York lifestyle).

[WarDamJagFan]

I spent 2 years at Deutsche in their derivatives group here in Jax. Most of the Sr Management I met really loved the lifestyle change from NY to Jax. Granted - most of them have families so living in Neptune / Atlantic / Ponte Vedra beach boasts a very attractive lifestyle to accommodate them.

There were mixed feelings in my age group ( 25 - 30 yrs ) about living in Jacksonville. Most of those working at DB in that age group had also moved down from the NE area which was a little bit of a culture shock for them. Some loved the slower pace of living and thoroughly enjoyed the beach life or Riverside, while others craved the fast pace of Wall Street/NYC. Understandable, and we'll never compete with that.

But cost cutting is huge. It's quite amazing that there are hardly any more banks present on Wall Street as there has been a mass exodus to cut costs whether it's moving across the river to NJ, Salt Lake, Jax, etc. We clearly have an advantage with cost of doing business and living, so for now the city should run with it as hard as they possibly can.

Jax is a baby city. Just rewind 10 years ago and look at how much this place has grown between then and now. I for one have reason to believe that we will continue to see steady growth as demographics continue to shift out of the North for warmer climates and cheaper costs of living. I love living here, and have no intention of moving any time soon. And most of my friends here proudly claim the same.