Food Trucks To Be Legislated Out of Existence?

[thelakelander]

As an urban planner and downtown worker, to me it would seem that the courthouse lawn or one of the Skyway stations would be decent spots. However, it's just a random thought that I'd like to hear people's opinions on.

[CG7]

I don't know if it is necessary to have food trucks at all the stations, all the time. I think Central, and San Marco stations 7 days a week (not 5 days) would be great, and maybe Hemming and Convention Center Stations on special occasions. Obviously the Court House every week day would be awesome too.

[strider]

One issue I see here is that we are missing some important facts.  One is how many people get into their cars and drive to lunch outside of the urban core on a daily basis? How many of the X number of total workers actually go out and buy their lunch on a daily basis?  Another is which current B&M restaurants are truly solvent and will be there in the next year or two?

Ron and this ordinance are taking a protectionist stance here and if we as a city do that, if we restrict food trucks to protect the existing B&M restaurants, then we also deserve to know if they are and will remain solvent to deserve that protection.  Will Ron and Cena's , for instance, post their business tax returns? (I wouldn't).  So, we could pass the protection laws and still end up with no B&M restaurants DT.

Without knowing the actual numbers of potential clientele DT, how do we know if the existing B&M facilities are indeed providing what is needed.  Common sense says they are not as we see DT folks going to other locations.

Of course, protectionism never works well anyway.  It stifles creativity and locks in the status quo.  If ATT, for instance, was the only phone company ever allowed in existence in the USA, would we still be talking on black rotary dial phones?  Maybe.  Why make progress if the clients must use your service.  This is, of course, why there are laws against gaining a monopoly in a market segment.  Look closer to reality at JEA and Comcast.  Without competition, there is no incentive to provide real customer service.  So you end up arguing with them and often losing because, hey, where else can you go?

The bottom line seems to be that if the existing ideas for DT, if the existing B&M facilities were capable of adding new vibrancy to DT, they would have already done it.  It takes new and creative ideas to move DT forward and food trucks are but one of those ideas that are needed.

[edjax]

As an urban planner and downtown worker, to me it would seem that the courthouse lawn or one of the Skyway stations would be decent spots. However, it's just a random thought that I'd like to hear people's opinions on.

Is there enough space on the walkway they built connecting the Landing area with Bay St?  Seems like that would be a decent place if space as some shade cover and they would not be right outside the door of any B&M establishment. 

[ronchamblin]

If the food truck heroes wish to invest in and operate a restaurant business, and wish to compete with fairness in the marketplace, let them jump in solid via the brick and mortar establishment, thereby adding a huge asset to the core.  This will perhaps be a little more risky than the food truck, and will perhaps require the bravest of these heroes, but it will be more challenging to the spirit, and will certainly fill one more space or building in the core -- something the core sorely needs .. something directly related to a journey toward vibrancy. 

Since our primary objective is to achieve full vibrancy and infill in the core, and not simply to make the biggest cash pile as possible for the moment, the heroes who actually invest in a brick and mortar operation will contribute in a huge way to this movement toward vibrancy. 

Of course some of these restauranteurs might wish to simply "do" the food truck restaurant, as it suits them better.  It is likely that any new core related legislation will determine the degree to which these food truck heroes can actually engage the parasitic life style in the core, an engagement which might be more in line with their character.  They can leave the greater challenges to their friends, perhaps former food truck persons, who choose the much more core-beneficial brick and mortar investment.

Food truck operations fill many things, like mouths and pocketbooks.  But brick and mortar operations fill mouths, pocketbooks, "and" buildings too -- the latter being something food trucks, if not regulated, can empty.

[Keith-N-Jax]

As many have said already, if you are worried about a food truck you shouldn't be in business to begin with. Sigh, this city has such a long way to go.

[fieldafm]

This is getting to the point that my opinion of Chamblins is taking a sharp turn in a different direction, sadly.

Food trucks are selling about $300-450 on a typical lunch. If this is somehow 'unfair' when your space has amenities like seating, climate control, alcohol sales and cover from the rain... then your business doesn't need protecting, it needs a combination of new mgmt and new products.

[Charles Hunter]

+1  ^

[ronchamblin]

As many have said already, if you are worried about a food truck you shouldn't be in business to begin with. Sigh, this city has such a long way to go.

This discussion is not about competition.  To continue to suggest that I or anyone fears competition is to belittle this conversation.  Personally, competition gives me energy .. gets me up in the morning.  This discussion is about achieving something worthy, something big, such as solid movement towards a vibrant downtown core.  Competition is the best dynamic in most systems.  My business has grown for almost four decades because I've benefited from the spirit of competition.  Hell, most of my competition in the book business has gone under.  Bring on the competition.   I shall do my best to destroy it.  No, my friend, Keith/Jax I do no engage this subject as a consequence of being afraid of competition.  Bring on the food trucks.  Bring on the bookmobiles and bookstores. 
 
My concern is that we continue to meander along in mediocrity, as we've done for three decades concerning our journey to core infill and vibrancy.  There is a time when any system requires guidance ... tweaking.  That's where a perceptive and determined mayor usually steps in ..  and other leaders, such as in the city council, to provide insight and guidance to an environment weakened and partially destroyed decades ago ..  guidance to an environment which has not been able to achieve a return to robust health via total freedom.  Obviously, total freedom to everything in the core cannot be trusted, as it has not yet produced anything substantial regarding the journey to core health, infill, and vibrancy.   

Government is ideally best when it allows total freedom to the people, so that they engage each other and the marketplace as they wish.  And if we were in the fortunate condition wherein our city core was robust and filled with businesses, offices, museums, condos, apartments, entertainment, thriving restaurants and bars .. with a density which makes for a beautiful city -- there would be no words from me about limitations or controls on anything, including food trucks. 

Freedom is best in any system which is healthy and efficient, simply because its robustness assures functions to perpetuate its health and efficiency.  But look around you, and you will notice a certain weakness in the core, in fact, a profound emptiness of most buildings ... a stagnation which has existed for decades.  The time for insensitive, naive, and useless shouts for freedom to anything that moves or wants to move in the city core should be over, as the ideal of freedom has done little for the core as of yet.  Now is the time for reflection about what has been going on in the core, and to decide if measured guidance is needed to ensure that the core moves toward the goal of vibrancy at a respectable rate .... hell, at any rate.   

There seems to be two aspects currently being used to measure quality or vibrancy in the core.  One is simply the number of people in the core, made up of workers and residents and visitors; and the other is building infill; that is, building occupancy. 

Building occupancy is king.  It is one of the most reliable measurements as to the vibrancy of a city core.  I hope that makes sense to most people in this discussion.  If it doesn't, I'm wasting my time, and should be sleeping at this time of morning.  In other words, buildings are occupied by "people".  And people provide the essence of a vibrant and robust city core.  Therefore, our objective should be to cause more occupation of core buildings, and certainly not to empty the buildings currently occupied.   

The number of visitors into a core, although important, are occasional and temporary.  But more important, the visitors offer less impact to vibrancy simply because they are not tied directly and necessarily to permanent building infill.  This is where the idea of food trucks, and their impact upon core vibrancy, both now and in the future, is to be questioned.

It is accepted that food trucks will bring some customers into the core, from outlying areas, but the degree to which this will occur is unknown at present.  I suspect that the draw will not be as much as some are assuming.

But, what of these visitors to food trucks, from outlying areas?  How do they impact what is "king" to the measurement of core vibrancy -- building occupancy?  Do visitors to core positioned food trucks, from outlying areas, add directly and substantially to core building infill?  Or do they, by supporting food trucks, somehow lessen the pressure for building infill?  Do they, by supporting food trucks, tend to cause more occupations of buildings, or do they tend to cause more empty buildings?  Given no other pressures, what is the tendency, as offered by visitors supporting food trucks?  Any rational person would have to admit that, if a tendency is present, it is one of emptying already occupied buildings in the core, and to encourage that no new buildings be occupied.

Bottom line.  We should encourage the opening of brick and mortar restaurants, and not discourage them from opening by allowing food trucks the run of the core.  We should focus on what is king to achieving revitalization.  That king is called building occupancy.

We should, as Lake has offered, entertain the idea of having one or two food truck parks in or on the edge of the core.  This will provide an experiment as to their impact, while also providing great food variety for customers, no matter their origin.

Any problem having complexities, if one is attempting to solve it, can sometimes be difficult simply because the specific causes of the problem are unknown.  The problem solver then sometimes grabs at straws, trying anything, applying various pressures, hoping that solution will come.  Well, the complexities involved in bringing revitalization to the city core are many, apparently most being unknown, as we've not made significant progress so far.  Therefore, one must resort to applying continual pressure, of any and all kinds if they hold promise to be effective, to encourage progress to the goal of revitalization. 

That pressure can be come in many forms. It can be constant education to the suburban citizens as to how a vibrant city core will benefit them too.  It can be the implementation of solid tax incentives for small businesses to open in the core.  It can be continual efforts to reduce crime and vagrancy in the core.  It can be a continual program to sell the core to investors.  It can be continual pressure to solve the parking problem, or if there is none, to educate people to this fact.  And from the mayor's office, it can be a constant education focused on council members as to the important of shifting some of the burden of core revitalization costs to the suburbs. 

Well, having reasonable restrictions on potentially core damaging entities from the outside, is the application of just another pressure, always present, to ensure that the journey to revitalization is not impaired by allowing thoughtless conditions of total freedom to anything that wants to make a profit, no matter the consequences to major goal of the city.

Building occupancy is king.  It tells the story of where we are on the journey to a healthy and vibrant city.  I suggest we do not allow anything to apply pressure to empty buildings, but only to fill them.   



         

[thelakelander]

As many have said already, if you are worried about a food truck you shouldn't be in business to begin with. Sigh, this city has such a long way to go.

This discussion is not about competition.  To continue to suggest that I or anyone fears competition is to belittle this conversation.  Personally, competition gives me energy .. gets me up in the morning.  This discussion is about achieving something worthy, something big, such as solid movement towards a vibrant downtown core.  Competition is the best dynamic in most systems.  My business has grown for almost four decades because I've benefited from the spirit of competition.  Hell, most of my competition in the book business has gone under.  Bring on the competition.   I shall do my best to destroy it.  No, my friend, Keith/Jax I do no engage this subject as a consequence of being afraid of competition.  Bring on the food trucks.  Bring on the bookmobiles and bookstores. 
 
My concern is that we continue to meander along in mediocrity, as we've done for three decades concerning our journey to core infill and vibrancy.  There is a time when any system requires guidance ... tweaking.

This isn't really the situation though.  It's just what you're trying to turn it into by unilaterally placing a responsibility and burden on a single segment of the food service industry when there's no solid proof that this segment is creating a problem to begin with. While there's proof that the industry has spurred new B&M, jobs and excitement in local enterprises, there's no valid proof of this industry harming the core or anything else. However, assumptions are being presented as truths while ignoring the actual statistical and real life results. Thus, these assumptions seem to masking an unfounded fear. What's next, cracking down on hot dog vendors?

If this is really about achieving something worthy, something big, such as solid movement towards a vibrant downtown core, let's make it that.  Redoing Hemming, adding public restrooms in public spaces, lighting the streets, keeping the streets clean, expanding mass transit connectivity to adjacent neighborhoods, doing something with the Landing, bringing Amtrak back downtown, COJ getting rid of excess DT property, etc. is where such a discussion should be focusing on.  Not taking out a guy making $400 a day selling pork belly sandwiches out of a truck.

[BridgeTroll]

That's where a perceptive and determined mayor usually steps in ..  and other leaders, such as in the city council, to provide insight and guidance to an environment weakened and partially destroyed decades ago .. 

And THIS is the group you are hitching your wagon to?  I oppose your version of protectionism in the guise of "vibrancy". 

[IrvAdams]

Reminder, this meeting is today. The location has been changed. This information was copied from the Online City Council Calendar:

March 12, 2014

3:30 pm


City Hall

117 W. Duval St., 1st Floor
Lynwood Roberts Room

The location of this meeting has been changed to the Lynwood Roberts Room.

Notice is hereby given that Council Member Reginald Brown will hold a meeting on Wednesday, March 12th at 3:30 p.m. in the Lynwood Roberts Room located at 117 West Duval Street, 1st floor, City Hall St. James Building. This meeting is the first of several to discuss and draft legislation for Food Trucks, all Council Members and interested parties are invited to attend.

And here is the link:
http://www.coj.net/city-council/events.aspx

[thelakelander]

Reggie Brown wants to craft 'landmark' food truck legislation

When City Council member Reggie Brown proposed a draft bill to regulate food trucks, the blowback from the mobile restaurateurs and supporting community was immediate.
Today, Brown and at least 25 others will review the draft ordinance line by line — adding parts here, crossing out parts there — to craft what he calls "landmark legislation" on the issue.

"I'm giving them a chance to put it in their hands," Brown said Tuesday. "The goal is to create legislation that we can all live with."

Any issues that generate large discussion will be set aside for future meetings.

Brown said he isn't anti-food truck. Instead, he said he's concerned about public safety and accountability.

He said the criticism aimed at him about the legislation mostly has died down when people realized he wasn't against the industry. But, brick-and-mortar restaurants still have concerns, mostly Downtown.

"We don't have the foot traffic Downtown," he said. "The perception is (food trucks) were taking away patrons."

In response, Brown said he will separate the issue into citywide, special events and Downtown portions and ask the Downtown Investment Authority to handle the urban core area.

full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542449

[tufsu1]

Was talking with the folks at Super Food Truck today...apparently 15+ food truck people will be at the meeting

[IrvAdams]

I was at the first committee meeting this afternoon regarding food trucks. There were about 25 people in attendance and maybe 7 or 8 city representatives from various departments, and a couple of DIA folks.

It was very participatory, and the audience was quite involved. A lot of people stood up to talk, and everybody had time to be heard. The FT folks worked with Mr. Brown and the city people and they basically went through the entire original proposal and adjusted or deleted all the nuisance language and tight restrictions that were objectionable to the FT operators. It was a good compromise and seemed agreeable to everybody.

They are planning on meeting again in a couple weeks.