Food Trucks To Be Legislated Out of Existence?

[Intuition Ale Works]

Note that our event tonight at Aardwolf featuring Mike Field and On the Fly would be illegal under the proposal. We'll be less than 500 feet from Southside Park! https://www.facebook.com/events/714884011877824/. (Apparently it is illegal for Aardwolf to sell food, which may be why foodtrucks and local brewers are such a great match... Can anyone verify?)

Aardwolf has a PUD that allows them to have food trucks. Spoke with them today about the issue to confirm.

[RyeRyeRocco]

It seems like this just popped up out of nowhere. Is that truly the case or has this been around for a while?

[fieldafm]

Note that our event tonight at Aardwolf featuring Mike Field and On the Fly would be illegal under the proposal. We'll be less than 500 feet from Southside Park! https://www.facebook.com/events/714884011877824/. (Apparently it is illegal for Aardwolf to sell food, which may be why foodtrucks and local brewers are such a great match... Can anyone verify?)

Aardwolf has a PUD that allows them to have food trucks. Spoke with them today about the issue to confirm.

That is correct, thanks to the very esteemed Councilwoman Lori Boyer.

[edjax]

^I wouldn't call him an idiot but it's obvious that someone he respects is constantly in his ear, telling him how they are suffering because of the big bad food trucks.  In this town, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Like I tell my sons, some time it's not the other guy, it's you and accepting personal responsibility to enhance what you bring to the table.

Well if the said councilman is simply going by what someone is whispering in his ear and not doing his own homework or using his own common sense, he is an idiot.  Regardless if others do the same in council as I am pretty sure he is not the only idiot on the city council.

[Ocklawaha]

Leave it to Jacksonville to completely screw up a good thing, national attention and booming business not withstanding.

Personally being the oft mean SOB that I'm accused of, I think we should hold a massive water festival and reinstate the dunking chair (just for the occasion) for these washed out buffoons.


The Jacksonville Dunking fest and Chum Celebration.

My God people, back in my Sunday School days we'd sometimes have a church fest where the pastors of the Methodist, Baptist, Church of Christ and Presbyterians, would all swap pulpits for a week of picnics and fun. ...And it was fun, as well as educational. So here's another CONSTRUCTIVE thought, why don't we swap city governments for a month with someplace equally progressive.

Imagine, we have already made it nearly impossible to do business in downtown town. (Hell, Ennis and I talked at length to a large maritime operator who had been fighting with the city for nearly 2 years just to get a permit for a mobile office!) So we don't dredge the port? Southeast HSR appears headed to Savannah and Atlanta and with the new joint private-public partnerships between CSX and NS and a group of states ranging from North Carolina to Illinois the new 'National Gateway Projects' promise to divert more of our rail traffic to Norfolk, Wilmington and Savannah, The Florida East Coast and the State of Florida are possibly driving the final nail in our cargo coffin. Want a cheap airline ticket? Drive to Orlando. Want a beach? Go to Cocoa. Want a Skyline? Go to Miami. Want a playground? Go to Orlando. Want gas? Stop in Jax but don't have your music on too loud! Damn it people we've got a national treasure in our river, want to kayak? Unless you like navigating shopping carts and turds, better head for the Wekiva or the Econ. Want to fish? Don't you dare in our downtown. Roller skate? Criminal! Skateboard? Thug! Pedestrian or Bike Rider? Moving target...

Let me share a little video from the 'Ocklawa-homa' wall of memories and family history. We can't swap governments with 'Whizbang,' anymore. I've been there. Remember I was a City Councilman in the famed 'Oil Patch'. OKIE ROOTS to the core! Some of these photos might have my father, mother, or aunts and uncles in them, you see they were all there too. Whizbang was for it's size FAR more industrial then Jacksonville has ever been, and today one can sit atop that hill and listen to the wind blow through the tall grass prairie. While we will likely never go the way of Whizbang, our city's misleaders are walking a similar path by not capturing the opportunities as they come and resting on what has-been a great city. Here is Whizbang's little tale:

http://www.youtube.com/v/5yiv8S0Ge8k?version=3&hl=en_US

Now about that government swap idea? How about we swap with Pawhuska, a true city and capital of the Osage Nation, even with state and national aid, a large central business district, and an industrial district once served by both the Santa Fe and the Missouri Pacific Railroads, nested in the scenic Osage Hills, Pawhuska is a mirror image of Jacksonville's apparent future.


Pawhuska, CBD, actually goes on for blocks but with only slightly more soap on the windows then Jacksonville.

Ah but who the hell am I? Pawhuska is looking better every day however!
WAKE THE HELL UP! TIME TO PULL OUR COLLECTIVE HEADS OUT REGGIE! IT CAN HAPPEN HERE!


Wanna trade? We await your call Jacksonville! 5 will get you 10 that THIS council could do better!

[Jaxson]

I have never been to a food truck or a food truck rally (As a Capricorn, I can sometimes be slow to try new things) but I am now tempted to visit a food truck to see what all the fuss is about.  IMHO, the strangest thing about the opposition to food trucks is that their opposition may actually result in more people patronizing the food trucks.

[IrvAdams]

^^^ Totally agree.

[Charles Hunter]

Parsing the ordinance - even though the whole thing must be shot down.

250.117 Excluded areas
Why within 500' of any SF Residential dwelling (Fire Station #1?), a residential subdivision, or CN zoning?  Isn't there CN all over town?

Part 12
250.1201 [a] - Licenses - OK, they need one
[b ] Vending Areas - Commercial and Industrial zoning only?  Why?
[c] Not impede traffic - I guess that makes sense, but does "impede" mean?
[d] location restrictions - some make sense (not block view of traffic or traffic signals), but once you start drawing the circles around the prohibition zones, you might not have much room left.
250.1202
[a] Regarding propane/fuel tanks - what are "all Duval County Health Dept. regulations and Jacksonville Fire Dept. regulations"?  Is that where the restroom requirement comes in, that some (not here) have talked about?
[e] Why close down at midnight?  Are brick andmortar establishments going to have this restriction?
[f-2] Why only two coolers?
[f-3] WHat does having the cooking or cooling unit "an integral part" mean?  Does the stove/fridge have to be welded to the frame?

250.1203 Pick up your trash.  OK.  Can we require brick and morter places to do this (drive-through's anyone?)?

250.1204 Insurance - OK, but is this required of B&M places?

[Abbourgoyne]

Like, which city 'stagnated' because of food trucks?

Bingo. Good luck coming up with one city that has economically stagnated because of food trucks? 

What businesses and parks (seriously, why can't a truck be anywhere near a park?) locally are suffering specifically because of food trucks? 

This whole thing is really silly but a great example of  why Jacksonville continues to struggle with downtown and urban core revitalization.

Food trucks are currently allowed in Hemming Plaza (a city managed park) on a weekly basis, FYI.

[thelakelander]

^If the proposed legislation is passed, food trucks will not be allowed within 500 feet of Hemming Plaza or any other public park in town.

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

Save Jax Truckies Petition

To be delivered to Bill Gulliford, President of City Council and Reggie Brown, 904) 630-1684
Tell our City Council to not pass Councilman Reggie Brown's ordinance that will severely limit the ability of food truck operators to conduct business in Jacksonville.

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/save-jax-truckies.fb48?source=s.icn.fb&r_by=2227935

[Noone]

^If the proposed legislation is passed, food trucks will not be allowed within 500 feet of Hemming Plaza or any other public park in town.

How will this effect the recent $750,000 taxpayer subsidized Unity Plaza?

[ronchamblin]

Sorry about delay on getting back.  And I apologize for the repetitive phrases, as I don't have the time to revise.  The opposing comments demand a clarification of my original post.  First, I must say that my concern is primarily that of city core revitalization and infill, and that decisions like allowing food trucks into the core affect negatively our objectives to revitalize.  Any decision allowing food trucks into the core is one of seeking immediate pleasure at the expense of long term health.  We've been engaging this habit for too long, avoiding the work to actually force the return of a city core we can all be proud of.

My points concern the dynamics of a somewhat desolate city core; not of a vibrant core, nor of vibrant areas like King St/Five Points/Avondale/San Marco, which are immune to negative impacts from food trucks simply because the businesses in these areas are strong ..  stabilized with high foot traffic.  My only concern about food trucks, is their aggressive appearance in the city core, which is probably the only place in the county that could be negatively impacted by an aggressive food truck presence.

The only place we should consider restricting the food trucks, unless there is good reason for doing so in other areas, is the city core; and the reason for restrictions in the core is not necessarily to protect the restaurants in the core, as any good restaurant will survive in any case, but to promote an environment for the opening of new restaurants in the low-foot traffic core area.

If food trucks continue to supply food for the permanent core workers, residents, and visitors .. on a permanent basis, there will be less demand for, and therefore incentive for, the opening of new restaurants in the core.     

If one imagines two extreme states within the city core, one being desolation and the other being vibrancy, then one might imagine a path between the two.  Our city core is not far from zero on the path to a natural, self-sustaining vibrancy.  The outlying areas mentioned above have already reached vibrancy and infill.

I have assumed that everyone wants a city core which enjoys a self-sustained vibrancy - fully infilled with residents, workers, businesses, and visitors - approaching, as is practical, conditions in the 40's.  Careless decisions, such as allowing food trucks into the core, while providing convenient pleasures to the tummy, and the illusions of vibrancy, will ultimately impede our journey to genuine full infill and vibrancy.

A fully energized, vibrant city core, wherein rental space is almost non-existent, will not be negatively impacted by the presence of food trucks, and so they could be welcomed in the future, as would the few vagrants and homeless people -- as they add spice.

A city core such as ours, somewhat stabilized in a condition forced to endure  low foot traffic, high vacancy rates, empty buildings, and vacant lots -- call it desolation -- needs focused programs and actions which urge, encourage, assist, entice, and even forces "permanent and fundamental" impacts such as new residents, new businesses, new bars and restaurants, new theaters, museums, and new investors into the core.  Food trucks only give an illusion of activity.

While Art Walk, the Jazz Festival, and One Spark provide temporary vibrancy, and introduce people to the core - the food trucks, if brought aggressively into the city core during the current period of weakness and desolation, will further weaken or destroy the restaurants coping with the low foot traffic, and will convince other start-ups to choose areas already vibrant - which is the current habit.  Where are the pioneers?

What is important?  What is the issue?  If it is one of achieving sustained city core infill and vibrancy, a condition wherein the momentum and energy encourages prosperity for all in the area, then we must make decisions toward those ends - and not decisions which waste time, money, and energy on facades, on hopes, on temporary excitements, on appearances .... on entities such as food trucks in the core ...as these decisions will only prolong core stagnation. 

Food trucks not only have little positive impact on the city core in its struggle toward sustained vibrancy, they also give false indicators of real progress toward vibrancy.  They sap business from restaurants enduring the current poor economy and the low foot traffic in the core.

Strengthening the core in fundamental ways first .. by any method .... so that more residents, businesses, and visitors will wish to enter it, is the current pressing objective.  Once vibrancy and infill is accomplished, those food truck entrepreneurs who learned their skills in the trucks, will actually have before them, a core which offers high probability of survival if they choose to open a brick and mortar.... or even if they wish to offer their food truck to the city core.  The current proposed ban of food trucks will be temporary, and needed only until the core reaches full infill and vibrancy.   

Allowing an aggressive population of food trucks into the city core will give only an "appearance" of vibrancy ... an illusion of real busyness in the core .... an illusion resulting in a false sense of accomplishment of genuine infill and vibrancy .. and therefore complacency and inaction ... which can only delay movement toward the goal of genuine self-sustaining full vibrancy. We need solid and permanent changes to the policies and infrastructures in the core, so that genuine infill will occur.. so that real vibrancy can emerge.

Must get to work.   

 

     



     

[thelakelander]

If food trucks continue to supply food for the permanent core workers, residents, and visitors .. on a permanent basis, there will be less demand for, and therefore incentive for, the opening of new restaurants in the core.

I'm in a rush at the moment, so I didn't read through your entire post, but it would be pretty bad for a city to over regulate an industry based on something like this, without valid economic data to back up the argument.  One of the worst things about downtown and why it doesn't work has been our ability to over regulate market rate creativity and innovation due to fear and opinions of select segments of our population that can't be logically proven.  Time and time again, for some reason, things that excel around the globe are seen as unworkable in Jax. Time and time again, we react by imposing conditions that drive the nail in downtown's coffin a little deeper.

As we continue to do this, all we effectively do is waste taxpayer money on additional unproven DT revitalization gimmicks while the free market continues take money and opportunity to everyplace else.  That's great news for residents and business owners in Riverside, Springfield, Murray Hill, Brooklyn, San Marco, etc. but you're further killing yourself in the Northbank.  At the end of the day, customers, companies and potential residents vote with their feet, so if DT is over regulated and limited to sandwich shops that aren't even open most of the week and weekends, that money and business opportunity will just flow over to another walkable district that appeals the same demographic.

The best thing we can do for downtown is to facilitate the market. This means, stepping back to a degree and letting the city evolve organically for a change.  This crazy, well unresearched legislation as proposed does nothing but take our community back a couple of steps back.

[BridgeTroll]

You make claims... and then provide no proof... examples include...

decisions like allowing food trucks into the core affect negatively our objectives to revitalize.

and

If food trucks continue to supply food for the permanent core workers, residents, and visitors .. on a permanent basis, there will be less demand for, and therefore incentive for, the opening of new restaurants in the core.

and

Food trucks not only have little positive impact on the city core in its struggle toward sustained vibrancy, they also give false indicators of real progress toward vibrancy.  They sap business from restaurants enduring the current poor economy and the low foot traffic in the core.