Food Trucks To Be Legislated Out of Existence?

[JHAT76]

The points I attempt to convey are missed by some, and are opposed by some perhaps because of set habits of opposing most of what I say.

I see some value in having food trucks everyday in the core.  However, I also see the negative affects of the trucks which, if allowed in high number into the core on a daily basis, will be eventually shown to overcome the positives gained from having them.

This issue is an invitation for another poor decision, supported by those with limited vision ... by those failing to see the underlying negative consequences of having food trucks in the core on a daily basis.  Food trucks will provide a dynamic which will surely stabilize the downtown core in its current condition of empty buildings with no permanent population of workers and residents. 

The food trucks will however, provide fleeting visits from outsiders, much as occurs with Art Walk and One Spark. The difference is that the food trucks, by being present everyday, will ensure that survival is difficult for existing restaurants, and encourage potential entrepreneurs to open elsewhere.     

There is a demand for eating establishments downtown.  As with most other things in our economy there are various ways for those demands to be met.  Some people like  walking to a truck, grabbing a sandwich, and walking back to the office.  Some want to call in a big office order to a bricks and mortar and go carry out.  Some people want to sit down, inside, out of the elements and talk with a lunch partner or jump on some wifi and relax.  Food trucks can't meet all these needs and price points alone.  There will always be an opportunity for bricks and mortars to succeed.  Olio seems to be doing fine even at a higher price point.  Like Stephen said.  There are demands for a variety of book stores.  Differing in price, inventory, atmosphere, etc.  Do we regulate what kind of stores we let downtown?

Additionally, you say a fleet of trucks.  Realistically how much demand is there from food from a truck on a daily basis?  There is a point where if this fleet gets too large they start losing money and close shop.  Let the market work. 

[thelakelander]

I looked. No cities seem to be collapsing in flames because people can buy and eat an organic Korean bbq taco right outside their office and still have time to do some shopping or run an errand or two before they have to be back at their desk.

Food trucks are a relatively new thing, so there's not a lot of economic impact studies available yet. This study in San Francisco suggests that the food trucks are luring away fast food customers at lunch time, not people who have time to go to a real  sit-down restaurant.

http://network.intuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Intuit-Food-Trucks-Report.pdf

They've been around for a while. They are just new to Jax because we are about 15 years behind most similar sized communities in the country.  Anyone who is really fearful of the negative consequences of this industry should do some research on Portland. That city has actually embraced the culture and appears to be economically benefiting from it. A few bits from a 2010 article:

Less than a decade ago, a Portlander who frequented one semi-sanitary burrito truck could smugly feel like an urban insider. Today, Multnomah County licenses more than 300 food carts. Within 100 yards of Addy's alone, pavement gourmands can savor Korean tacos, first-class espresso, and walloping Bosnian pitas. A half-dozen gyro options jostle with a week's worth of banh mi choices. Cult-favorite pork yakisoba competes with single-dish purveyors of Bangkok street delicacies. One newcomer promises "anything you can stuff in a dumpling."

No one planned Portland's cart revolution. In a city that tends to workshop and white-paper every last particle of its existence, "the carts" are a rare local instance of Taoist urbanism. And in the process of letting them happen, the city stumbled upon a form of kudzu capitalism—powered by propane tanks and makeshift wiring—that reclaims and revitalizes vacant land. Portland's food-cart phenomenon couples the city's obsession with gastronomy and a dirty-fingernailed, DIY brand of free enterprise. It's the perfect combination for the dynamic talent this city attracts, and for our gloomy economic times.

Back in the 1970s, faced with a dying downtown, Portland declared that all center-city construction had to include ground-floor retail. It was a good idea, and one that injected new energy into our streets. But as the recession has filled many a city code–commanded storefront window with "FOR LEASE" signs, it's the once-barren—and oft-ridiculed—surface parking lots that have begun pulsing with urban life in the form of food carts.

"The carts' success downtown has people thinking of these sorts of structures as an interim form of development that can create a destination," says Marcy McInelly, an associate principal at Sera Architects. "Traditional restaurants do that, but it takes a long time. Carts can do it very quickly."

City Center Parking, a firm owned partly by the powerful Goodman family, rules acres of downtown asphalt. For decades, many mourned the Goodmans' reluctance to develop their lots into the sort of high-density, mixed-use new buildings that long ago became urban-planning gospel. Now, economic conditions strongly suggest that new downtown high-rises won't be popping up anytime soon. Meanwhile, City Center has decided—call it enlightened self-interest—to allow carts to breed on its lots.

"It started with one, basically," says Al Niknabard, City Center's director of operations. "Then it was two. Then four. And it seemed like the more we added, the better they all did." Niknabard declines to even estimate how many carts now occupy the edges of City Center's lots. "We hardly ever have cancellations. It will go as far as classical capitalism will let it."

McInelly, for one, sees some potential in strategic cart deployment. She and her firm drafted a "best practices" menu for Portland's transportation office that suggested using food carts to spruce up the East Side's dour MAX stations. "It's a way to create a 'there' there," she says. "You could potentially use carts at transit stations, or in the Lloyd District—anywhere you want to foster some vitality."

So perhaps advancing the cart revolution requires nothing more than matchmaking. Desperate property owner? Meet moneymaking opportunity. On N Mississippi Avenue, developer Roger Goldingay faced recessionary doom on a vacant lot he bought at the height of the real estate boom. Carts proved his salvation—today, his Mississippi Marketplace knits together 10 high-quality carts with customized water and power grids, all atop eco-friendly, rainwater-permeable asphalt (see "Pod Perfection").

"I think you can say we saved a developer—me—and a contractor, and probably two marriages," Goldingay tells me. "We started 10 small businesses and created 40 or 50 jobs."

And therein, perhaps, lies the true genius and potential of Portland's carts. In these woozy, hungover years after our binge on fake credit and ersatz profits, food carts bring American business down to earth. On vacant lots and unloved parking strips in Portland, tiny operations demonstrate a different way for free enterprise to take root, grow, and change a city's streets and tastes.

Full article: http://www.portlandmonthlymag.com/eat-and-drink/food-cart-city/articles/food-carts-0910

Even when it comes to discussing regulations, the approach is different:

Portland officials are trying to find ways to improve the city's food truck ordinance and procedural rules, and they've asked food truck owners for their input before any actual proposals are sent to the city council.

In a letter to all the interested parties, city manager Mark Rees cited  the  concerns highlighted in the Portland Press Herald's May 8 Food & Dining  section (in which food truck operators expressed frustration with some of the rules and regulations that made it more difficult for them to operate in the city), along with direct feedback from truck owners and the public.

Among the options being considered are rule changes that would allow clustering of food trucks in the city, and an end to a controversial fee the trucks were being asked to pay when they park on private property.

Full article: http://www.pressherald.com/blogs/mainealacarte/218018651.html

[thelakelander]

Additionally, you say a fleet of trucks.  Realistically how much demand is there from food from a truck on a daily basis?  There is a point where if this fleet gets too large they start losing money and close shop.  Let the market work.

Where does this fleet congregate? I'm hungry.  Any place like this typical mid day scene in DC?



I work downtown.  I'm familiar with the location of a few trucks spread out over a two mile area but other than rallies, I've never seen decent numbers pulled up in a single spot, like you'll find in most downtowns with life.

[tufsu1]

I see some value in having food trucks everyday in the core.  However, I also see the negative affects of the trucks which, if allowed in high number into the core on a daily basis, will be eventually shown to overcome the positives gained from having them.

the solution to that is fairly simple. 

Allow a specified number of licensed vendors in specific (semi-permanent) public locations....and then allow additional trucks at special events (monthly rallies, festivals, etc.)....but legislating them off private property is another thing entirely.

[JHAT76]

Additionally, you say a fleet of trucks.  Realistically how much demand is there from food from a truck on a daily basis?  There is a point where if this fleet gets too large they start losing money and close shop.  Let the market work.

Where does this fleet congregate? I'm hungry.  Any place like this typical mid day scene in DC?



I work downtown.  I'm familiar with the location of a few trucks spread out over a two mile area but other than rallies, I've never seen decent numbers pulled up in a single spot, like you'll find in most downtowns with life.

I should clarify my fleets statement.  I was definitely talking demand in Jax where the trucks are spread out.

As I look out my window toward the Northwest from my office I see the desolation that is LaVilla.  Food trucks in this amount would be a welcome change from the weedy surface lots.  Here we are on a rainy, blah day outside.  No food truck in sight, yet which brick and mortar has come in to fill that need?  Who is serving the courthouse crowd on these days?  There have been a few open, but I think laying the blame on threats of food trucks rather than all the other core "issues" is a bit of a stretch.

[thelakelander]

^I agree.

[fieldafm]

The difference is that the food trucks, by being present everyday, will ensure that survival is difficult for existing restaurants, and encourage potential entrepreneurs to open elsewhere.     

Food trucks aren't scaring away new businesses to the core. The fact that I can open a restaurant in Five Points (where there is life) for less money than I can Downtown (where there is little life) is what's encouraging potential entreprenuers to open elsewhere.

[thelakelander]

An article in today's Jax Daily Record explains CM Brown's point of view about food trucks:

"I'm not against food trucks. I'm pro food trucks," Brown said. "I'm a patron of several of the food trucks we have Downtown."

Some Downtown restaurant owners have told Brown they felt the food trucks diverted business from them. Brown said until Downtown foot traffic picks up, there may not be enough business for everyone.

"We cannot afford for folks like Quiznos and The Brick leave Downtown, and we can't give them free rent," he said. "We've got to find some way to not discourage the folks that are trying to hold on until Downtown becomes vibrant.

"I think the food trucks can coexist," Brown added, "but we need to create some distance between them."

He said the city already has rules for food vendors, but food trucks are not clearly defined and neither are the guidelines that govern their operation.

Brown said he wanted better clarification after seeing one

business sell food out of a single axle trailer without a city

license.

full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542333

[JeffreyS]

The difference is that the food trucks, by being present everyday, will ensure that survival is difficult for existing restaurants, and encourage potential entrepreneurs to open elsewhere.     

Food trucks aren't scaring away new businesses to the core. The fact that I can open a restaurant in Five Points (where there is life) for less money than I can Downtown (where there is little life) is what's encouraging potential entreprenuers to open elsewhere.

Dead on target, field. +1

[fieldafm]

Brown said he wanted better clarification after seeing one business sell food out of a single axle trailer without a city license.

That is such smoke and mirrors.

If someone is vending food without the proper licenses (and there are several), then enforce the rules already on the books... don't make new laws under the guise of 'consumer protection' that in reality are designed to drive out competition.

[BridgeTroll]

An article in today's Jax Daily Record explains CM Brown's point of view about food trucks:

"I'm not against food trucks. I'm pro food trucks," Brown said. "I'm a patron of several of the food trucks we have Downtown."

Some Downtown restaurant owners have told Brown they felt the food trucks diverted business from them. Brown said until Downtown foot traffic picks up, there may not be enough business for everyone.

"We cannot afford for folks like Quiznos and The Brick leave Downtown, and we can't give them free rent," he said. "We've got to find some way to not discourage the folks that are trying to hold on until Downtown becomes vibrant.

"I think the food trucks can coexist," Brown added, "but we need to create some distance between them."

He said the city already has rules for food vendors, but food trucks are not clearly defined and neither are the guidelines that govern their operation.

Brown said he wanted better clarification after seeing one

business sell food out of a single axle trailer without a city

license.

full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542333

He's try to protect Quizno's??  Is The Brick downtown?  Burrito gallery does not seem to oppose the trucks.  Who are the other businesses who oppose the trucks?

[thelakelander]

The Brick is the little coffeehouse in the Ed Ball Building. If Quizno's is struggling, it's not because of a random food truck. I'm not sure COJ can do anything to save the Quizno's chain. That's a product issue.  There are simply too many better and cheaper options in the marketplace than the expensive ham sandwiches they serve.  I've only been to Quinzo's twice in the years I've worked downtown. One time someone else paid for it and the other time, I had a coupon to get a sandwich for free. Saving Quinzo's is like attempting to ban  motorized vehicles to preserve the horse carriage industry.

As for the Brick, the average person who doesn't go inside the Ed Ball Building would never know they exist. Product aside (you can get coffee anywhere these days), a facade enhancement featuring an outdoor entrance, better signage, etc. would do wonders for them.

[IrvAdams]

Mr. Brown has input from downtown b&m establishments, but where is his input from food truck owner/operators? They are private taxpaying citizens also, and their opinions about regulation and competition are important too.

At the very least the food truck owners have a right to be heard, and to be heard before legislation is written up and distributed publicly.

[BridgeTroll]

The Brick is the little coffeehouse in the Ed Ball Building. If Quizno's is struggling, it's not because of a random food truck. I'm not sure COJ can do anything to save the Quizno's chain. That's a product issue.  There are simply too many better and cheaper options in the marketplace than the expensive ham sandwiches they serve.  I've only been to Quinzo's twice in the years I've worked downtown. One time someone else paid for it and the other time, I had a coupon to get a sandwich for free. Saving Quinzo's is like attempting to ban  motorized vehicles to preserve the horse carriage industry.

As for the Brick, the average person who doesn't go instead the Ed Ball Building would never know they exist. Product aside (you can get coffee anywhere these days), a facade enhancement featuring an outdoor entrance, better signage, etc. would do wonders for them.

My thoughts exactly....

[FSBA]

Hasn't the owner of the downtown Quizno's been a pretty vocal opponent of the food trucks since Day 1?

Also...

Brown said he wanted better clarification after seeing one business sell food out of a single axle trailer without a city license.