Battle for the historic armory

[JayBird]

I've got my own personal preference here and I'm sure others do as well on both sides. The fact of the matter though is that if the city gives this to the Sons of the Confederacy without issuing the RFP and giving others a fair chance, it is a backroom deal. That's not democracy and not how our city should work.

+100

[Tacachale]

What I really don't understand is the argument that the SVC would be getting the building for $1. I'm sure at this point there are plenty of other entities who would be willing to take over the building and fix it up if we're willing to let it go for $1.

[icarus]

The LOI process would have needed to be public.  If COJ complied with the requirements in 2011, its not a backroom deal.  And, the fact that two years later another party came forward does not magically make it so.

I personally think the arts are more likely to contribute to the benefit of downtown and increase activity more so than a history museum. But, everyone needs to be real careful as to how this is handled.

Investors and interested parties need to know that when they deal with COJ and devote time and resources to a project that COJ won't backout in the last minute because a better offer came in. To do so now without some definitive legal or flawed procedural point would set a dangerous precedent and further call into question doing business with COJ and in the Urban Core generally.

[Tacachale]

^That is true, but in this case we're talking about an investment of only $1 and repairs. I just don't think saving face is necessarily a reason to stick with a group that's only putting $1 into the deal.

[fieldafm]

A LOI is not the same as an RFP by any stretch of the imagination.  The Mayor's Office wanted to put the homeless day center at the Armory about a year ago.

[CityLife]

@Icarus. Well of course the LOI was public, never said it wasn't. There is a big difference between quietly putting something on the city's website and publicizing it through the news media and community groups so that potentially interested parties actually hear about it. I looked into opening a live music venue at two places within about a quarter mile of this site (EHT Building and Earl Horne Building) about a year before this, but it wasn't even remotely feasible to rehab in the private market. A $1 lease would have made it much more attainable. Again, like I said, I was plugged into this area and lived a mile away, but never heard a word about the LOI. If you think that isn't an issue, you are welcome to that opinion, but I feel otherwise.

I jokingly said it before in another thread and will do so again...who wants to get the Old Courthouse and City Hall with me? Just have to find a councilperson to sponsor it, issue the LOI and voila we're set.

[sheclown]

What pool of funds are going to be used to renovate this?  I would like to know how many taxpayer dollars are being spent.  Furthermore, a museum which celebrates "The Second American Revolution" -- what... are we going to take school children there on field trips?  Explain that war to me.

From the website:

The citizen-soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personified the best qualities of America. The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South's decision to fight the Second American Revolution. The tenacity with which Confederate soldiers fought underscored their belief in the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. These attributes are the underpinning of our democratic society and represent the foundation on which this nation was built.

Today, the Sons of Confederate Veterans is preserving the history and legacy of these heroes so that future generations can understand the motives that animated the Southern Cause.

The SCV is the direct heir of the United Confederate Veterans, and the oldest hereditary organization for male descendents of Confederate soldiers. Organized at Richmond, Virginia in 1896, the SCV continues to serve as a historical, patriotic, and non-political organization dedicated to ensuring that a true history of the 1861-1865 period is preserved.

Membership in the Sons of Confederate Veterans is open to all male descendants of any veteran who served honorably in the Confederate armed forces.

http://scv.org/

[icarus]

CityLife - I really can't defend the history of cronyism in COJs dealings. In fact, I have split feelings as to how much of it is incompetence in execution of duties by COJ staff and how much of it is the kind of backroom dealings that have been the hallmark of our city governance.

I believe that the bid and RFP process were both brought up in the meetings on consolidation as areas woefully due for improvement.  I personally think that COJ has been entirely deficient in accounting for City assets, i.e. property, and effectively managing their sale and development.  Of course, my basic opinion remains the same ... we have to respect the rule of law and move to make the changes necessary so that such things don't happen again.  If a procedure, rule or law was found to be broken, I wholeheartedly support a new RFP process.

Sheclown - My understanding, limited as it is, is that no public dollars are being used on the restoration and repair of the armory.  This is the justification for the $1 lease.  I have real concerns about the financial ability of either group to make the repairs in a timely manner and personally feel COJ is directly responsible for permitting the deterioration of the structure.

As to the explaining the Civil War, based on your rather vocal opinions, I dare say we could have a rather lengthy conversation about the war and its reasons.  Suffice it to say, the war was about a lot more than slavery and definitely about economics (of which slavery was a part) and independence. I'm not sure there were clean hands on any side of the war and as I said, we could spend a great deal of time on the subject.

******
I'm trying to be independent on the issue. I definitely see the value of an arts environment over the museum but again .. my concern is the rule of law and its effects on future developments.

[sheclown]

It is easy to find out --  a public records request

[fieldafm]

I believe that the bid and RFP process were both brought up in the meetings on consolidation as areas woefully due for improvement.  I personally think that COJ has been entirely deficient in accounting for City assets, i.e. property, and effectively managing their sale and development.  Of course, my basic opinion remains the same ... we have to respect the rule of law and move to make the changes necessary so that such things don't happen again.  If a procedure, rule or law was found to be broken, I wholeheartedly support a new RFP process.

I agree that the City should be getting off their @sses and start putting the very large inventory of property they (or WE) hold to good use.

Again though, an RFP has not been issued for the Armory.  I've maintained from the beginning of this debate that the City should be issuing an RFP on the building instead of this nonsense Councilwoman Daniels is doing.

[JayBird]

@SheClown: public taxpayer dollars = $0.00 otherwise it would be a much more expensive lease arrangement.

@Fieldafm: isn't there some sort of rfp or something that has been floating around to get inventory and uses? Also, isn't there a clear outline for leasing city property or how it's suppose to be done?

I too question the ability of both who are currently in the running for it, as the few numbers thrown around have been in the $2-5M arena. Both of these groups have that much money just sitting there waiting to be used for a space? If that's the case, then whoever loses out of the armory should go right down to Orange & Main and start there. Overlooking Confederate Park is some nice scenery! And one of the groups might be able to use that to their advantage.

I do hope that COJ will be smart enough to put in some kind of stipulation that the work must be completed within a set amount of time, for whomever takes the space. At the end of the day, I think whichever group takes it will treat it better than Parks & Rec did.

[fieldafm]

@Fieldafm: isn't there some sort of rfp or something that has been floating around to get inventory and uses? Also, isn't there a clear outline for leasing city property or how it's suppose to be done?

Several City officials have said that COJ Real Estate is trying to do a thorough inventory of all COJ-owned property.
As far as there being a clear process, I can name several examples of private investors approaching the City trying to put an offer on properties that either were met with dumbfounded looks.. or an RFP process that was completely inept.

The procurement process leaves a lot to be desired.

[icarus]

I think a striking example of the inept process is Intuition's interest in the real estate on Forest. An established local company wanting to redevelop an ash site/park .... and yet we all wait ....

I know the DIA has specifically advertised for at least two positions dealing with the re-purposing of city real property and fostering development downtown ... hopefully this leads to some type of a change in an obviously broken process.

Maybe, the Artery could take this level of interest and the hidden cache of money and redevelop School No. 4. It seems with the old classrooms that it would be perfect for their intended use ...

[dougskiles]

Maybe, the Artery could take this level of interest and the hidden cache of money and redevelop School No. 4. It seems with the old classrooms that it would be perfect for their intended use ...

That would be my vote.  With everything going on in Riverside along the I-95 corridor from RAM to Artist's Walk to Riverside Dog Park, the PS4 would be the perfect location for a non-profit art center.  Both performing and visual.

[MEGATRON]

sheclown messing this thread up with a bunch of anti-SCV rhetoric is really annoying