Murray Hill Roundabout

[cat_herder]

I live a couple of blocks from the intersection of Edgewood and Mayflower and we DON'T need a roundabout.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Edgewood is so wide......
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Not the section of Edgewood and Mayflower. I have driven that section, walked that section and rode a electric scooter in that section. We still don't need a roundabout.

[thelakelander]

I would like to experience that type of greenway first hand.  Is there any place here in the Southeast that has put in something like that?

The closest thing I can think of locally that comes to mind is Lillian S. Davin Park in the middle of River Road in San Marco.






A short stretch of Hollywood Boulevard in Hollywood, FL also has a similar theme:




Not close and it's more park and less road but I've always been impressed with Garfield Place (Piatt Park) in DT Cincinnati:

[ricker]

Prepared to be ignored or smacked down, but the reformation of a neighborhood's merchant association is a necessary positive set of steps in the right direction to gain momentum and "teeth", that being said, several small businesses in MurrayHill&LakeShore cross market and live to share their success stories.
Pomade&Tonic and Jazzercise come to mind.

The two neighborhoods have much in common with most heavily travelled arterials running straight in to Avondale&Riverside.
If murrayhill's EdgewoodAve is "a poster child" for a road diet/ lane diet, then definitely moreso is LakeShore's stretch of Blanding (which was originally St.johnsAve when platted by the Riverside Co. of develepors,

AND sorely needs a roundabout at Blanding/OldStJohns/BayviewRd/& Palmer in order to revitalize the commercial strip  suffering from too many vacancies and an environment build to be dangerous for cyclists and resident pedestrians.

The Bayview Road medians though at 30' wide are a special asset to Old Lake Shore

[mtraininjax]

If it was up to me I would replace the outside lanes with parallel parking, add dedicated and protected bike lanes, and expand the sidewalk to allow space for future sidewalk cafes and the like.

I agree we need a larger sidewalk, but at what expense? Expanding the sidewalks pushes the perpendicular parking out further to where only parallel is an option. What do you do with the parking in the middle of the shoppes of Murray Hill? You really need 8-10 foot lanes on either side for traffic, not much you can really do right there.

Also, there is a thread under Murray Hill or Westside, where our City Councilman for most of Murray Hill, Warren Jones, has a plans to beautify Cassat avenue, so Edgewood is not even on his radar. Good reason too, Cassat is a lot busier with more businesses than Edgewood.

If the Edgewood corridor is to get back on Councilman Jones' docket, we need more businesses to come back. We are seeing an increase, but we still have far too many empty spaces. 1171 will indeed help, but we need to move the Kat out and fill some of Sleiman's empty spaces, which we will see as the economy comes back.

Once there are more businesses along Edgewood, then the speed issue will come back, just as it has become an issue with Cassat.

[fieldafm]

Cost is relative to ROI.

In the Lancaster example:

49 new businesses along the boulevard and an almost doubling of revenue generated compared to just before the work began
An almost 10 percent rise in downtown property values
800 new permanent jobs, 1,100 temporary construction jobs, and an estimated $273 million in economic output
800 new and rehabbed homes
Dramatically increased roadway safety, with traffic collisions cut in half and collisions with personal injury cut by 85 percent

Sounds like a no-brainer.


You don't even need to go as far as California to see the differences... just look what is happening in San Marco and along King Street.


BTW, this stretch of Edgewood is Jim Love's district.

[thelakelander]

Also, there is a thread under Murray Hill or Westside, where our City Councilman for most of Murray Hill, Warren Jones, has a plans to beautify Cassat avenue, so Edgewood is not even on his radar. Good reason too, Cassat is a lot busier with more businesses than Edgewood.

If the Edgewood corridor is to get back on Councilman Jones' docket, we need more businesses to come back. We are seeing an increase, but we still have far too many empty spaces. 1171 will indeed help, but we need to move the Kat out and fill some of Sleiman's empty spaces, which we will see as the economy comes back.

Once there are more businesses along Edgewood, then the speed issue will come back, just as it has become an issue with Cassat.

Also, Cassat is a FDOT road. Edgewood isn't.  Any work on either will most likely come from different funding pots. For example, a certain percentage of mobility fee money is earmarked to Edgewood for an affordable complete streets makeover.

[Kerry]

I agree we need a larger sidewalk, but at what expense? Expanding the sidewalks pushes the perpendicular parking out further to where only parallel is an option. What do you do with the parking in the middle of the shoppes of Murray Hill? You really need 8-10 foot lanes on either side for traffic, not much you can really do right there.

If you get rid of one travel lane in each direct it frees up 11 feet on both sides.  Everything else moves in 11 feet with the sidewalk expanding to fill the new space.  One of the things I dislike about the new San Marco Square is how little sidewalk space there is down by The Loop and Maple Street.  I like to eat outside but it loses some of the luster when I have to eat 3 feet from someone's hot engine.

As for the center lane parking - that would just stay there and traffic would deflect around it.  I actually wouldn't mind an alternating parking pattern with one block having curb side parking and the next block with center lane parking.  It would make the street like a chicane which would keep spends down and the road interesting (St John's Town Center employed this a little bit).

[mtraininjax]

Also, Cassat is a FDOT road. Edgewood isn't.  Any work on either will most likely come from different funding pots. For example, a certain percentage of mobility fee money is earmarked to Edgewood for an affordable complete streets makeover.

All great ideas, but again, Edgewood is not on the radar of the City Council, till it is, these are what they are, great ideas without a champion. Until you get a champion from City Council on board with this, funding or not, you are not going to see change. Sleiman could, but that space is a small amount of his overall portfolio. He has bigger fish frying at the Landing.

[icarus]

Well, the San Marco changes were funded by the local businesses and community outside normal city funding .. but I just don't think you have the critical mass of business to make those changes in Murray Hill in the same fashion.

[Kerry]

Sitting around and waiting for the City to act is why many urban neighborhoods were abandoned in favor of every increasing sprawl.  There are lots of ways to be pro-active and influence the direction of City Council.

[thelakelander]

Also, Cassat is a FDOT road. Edgewood isn't.  Any work on either will most likely come from different funding pots. For example, a certain percentage of mobility fee money is earmarked to Edgewood for an affordable complete streets makeover.

All great ideas, but again, Edgewood is not on the radar of the City Council, till it is, these are what they are, great ideas without a champion. Until you get a champion from City Council on board with this, funding or not, you are not going to see change. Sleiman could, but that space is a small amount of his overall portfolio. He has bigger fish frying at the Landing.

It's not really that complicated. For a simple lane restriping all you need is some coordination between Public Works, that particular council representative and the community.  For example, eventually, PW will have to resurface the street as a part of routine maintenance. You coordinate, so when that happens, the street markings are different from what's currently in place.  What you see happening in San Marco with Councilwoman Boyer is proof that coordination works.

[thelakelander]

Sitting around and waiting for the City to act is why many urban neighborhoods were abandoned in favor of every increasing sprawl.  There are lots of ways to be pro-active and influence the direction of City Council.

Yes. San Marco and Riverside/Avondale are great examples of pro-active communities that influence the direction of city leaders. There's no reason Murray Hill can't be just as successful.

[thelakelander]

Well, the San Marco changes were funded by the local businesses and community outside normal city funding .. but I just don't think you have the critical mass of business to make those changes in Murray Hill in the same fashion.

From what I understand, the lion's share of that San Marco project was funded with city money saved on the San Marco Boulevard streetscaping project. It just so happened that one of the roundabouts involved with the streetscaping project created a traffic stacking problem at the Atlantic Boulevard signal. Money saved on work to the north of the square, was then used to help alleviate the problem in the Square.  Luckily, the roundabout solution also enhanced the Square by expanding Balis Park. Plus, the local businesses and the community raised money for the park's added amenities and maintenance.  I see no reason why Murray Hill's business community can't be just as active.

However, to be honest, that San Marco project would not have happened at the warp speed it did without the coordination of saved public money from the streetscaping project that was already underway between the Square and I-95.

[mtraininjax]

t's not really that complicated. For a simple lane restriping all you need is some coordination between Public Works, that particular council representative and the community.  For example, eventually, PW will have to resurface the street as a part of routine maintenance. You coordinate, so when that happens, the street markings are different from what's currently in place.  What you see happening in San Marco with Councilwoman Boyer is proof that coordination works.

Well, maybe Lori Boyer will enjoy showing Warren Jones how to manage his district. I know the council members enjoy it when other council members tell them how to manage their constituents.

We all know its really, really, really not that easy.

[thelakelander]

Isn't Edgewood in Love's district? If that's what the constituents want, they should lobby for it.  Evidently, that's what's happening with Cassat and Jones.