Murray Hill Roundabout

[Kerry]

I was in Murray Hill over the weekend I was thinking a roundabout at Edgewood and Mayflower along with a dedicated Texas U-turn lane at Plymouth would really help define that part of the neighborhood.  With 4 lanes of traffic along Edgewood from the train tracks to Post Road there is enough room to put Edgewood on a diet and help create a very pedestrian friendly environment to encourage some infill development.

[mtraininjax]

What do you do about parking? The roundabout is going to take parking away from the location.  18-wheeler trucks that come out of Coolair will not be able to make that roundabout turn. Nice idea, but I don't see it working there. When the 1171 restaurant opens up, there will be more of a crush on parking there as well. When Fat Kat goes away and turns into something else, again, parking will be a premium issue.

Good idea, but the area is pedestrian friendly as it is, what MH needs to do is make Plymouth, the road next to the tracks a RIGHT TURN only at both sides, it is too hard to turn left from either side. Go one street north to Mayflower and use the light to make the turn.

[fieldafm]

A roundabout is not needed, but Edgewood Avenue is the poster child of a road that needs a context sensitive road diet.

[Kerry]

Depending on the size at most 2 or 3 parking spaces would be affected and semis go through roundabouts all the time.  Using a min-roundabout with a raised and textured center would still allow trucks to use the roundabout while deflecting cars.  With greater infill the loss of parking spaces would be off-set by fewer people needing to drive, and a general beautification of the street will encourage people to park along other parts of Edgewood and walk.

Check out Exhibit 6-50 on page 180 of this document.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/00067/000676.pdf

BTW - I like the right turn only idea for Plymouth as it would open up space for the dedicated U-turn lane.

[thelakelander]

Edgewood is so wide, you could green it up, add parking, bike lanes, etc., pedestrian friendly crossings, etc. without having to acquire more ROW.  I'm not sure what a roundabout achieves that you can't already get in there via a complete streets lane diet.  The images below are simple lane restriping jobs. Considering Edgewood is a local street, we could do something like this virtually overnight if it were a priority.

Main Street - Pottstown, PA - Before


Main Street - Pottstown, PA - After



Stone Way North - Seattle, WA - Before


Stone Way North - Seattle, WA - After


http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/11septoct/05.cfm

[Kerry]

Either way - would be fine with me.  If it was up to me I would replace the outside lanes with parallel parking, add dedicated and protected bike lanes, and expand the sidewalk to allow space for future sidewalk cafes and the like.

[nagrom73]

Not to be an idea squasher, but a roundabout down there is a horrible idea. This coming from someone who has to drive through that area at least twice a day and uses the pedestrian facilities 2-3 time a week. Expanded sidewalks and a bike lane sound cool, but parallel parking also bad idea. That area needs the parking spots it has in order to attract businesses and that would take a lot of spots away. We neeeeed businesses to come to the area.

[Kerry]

Ooops - sorry, I didn't mean 'parallel', I meant perpendicular.  Good catch.

For Murray Hill to really take hold as a neighborhood it needs a well defined center.  Since there is no room for a public square the next best option is a notable intersection.  That is the difference between San Marco Square and the row of street-front buildings to the north.  One has a defined center and the other doesn't.

[thelakelander]

Edgewood Avenue is so wide, if the funding were there, you could do a lane diet and install a median promenade with a multi-use path from the First block to I-10.  Then the entire corridor would have a central green space and gathering spot.

[Kerry]

I would like to experience that type of greenway first hand.  Is there any place here in the Southeast that has put in something like that?

[fieldafm]

First time I was in Lancaster, CA I literally thought 'this is Edgewood Avenue in Murray Hill'
























BEFORE




AFTER

The nine-block project, costing $11.5 million, has so far attracted $130 million in private investment and generated $273 million in economic output,

http://bettercities.net/article/new-streetscape-spurs-downtown-turnaround-19326

49 new businesses along the boulevard and an almost doubling of revenue generated compared to just before the work began
An almost 10 percent rise in downtown property values
800 new permanent jobs, 1,100 temporary construction jobs, and an estimated $273 million in economic output
800 new and rehabbed homes
Dramatically increased roadway safety, with traffic collisions cut in half and collisions with personal injury cut by 85 percent

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/how_a_california_suburban_retr.html

[thelakelander]

^Whoa. That's a pretty nice duel purpose streetscape.

[Kerry]

Is there an active 'Better Block' group in Jax that could do this as a demonstration project?

[nagrom73]

Edgewood Avenue is so wide, if the funding were there, you could do a lane diet and install a median promenade with a multi-use path from the First block to I-10.  Then the entire corridor would have a central green space and gathering spot.

*drools*

[nagrom73]

Is there an active 'Better Block' group in Jax that could do this as a demonstration project?

Murray hill has the murray hill preservation association that could, if enough people joined, make something like this happen. If it was done in conjunction with a merchants association, it would probably go farther. Dont think mh has a merchants assoc anymore.