Jax Landing to be renovated

[thelakelander]

Is this a joke? 
A little paint and a few bulbs is more important than the trio? 
Give the landing it's parking and call it a day!

To be honest, Rummell is right.  The revitalization of the Landing is one of the most important items that can be done within a short time period.  I'd dare to say, it would have more of an immediate positive impact than the Laura Trio (although that's a great need as well), the Shipyards and growing downtown's residential population base. 

Regardless of what people think about the Landing and its owner, it is a major downtown landmark and one that attracts the most visitors to the area.  It's image basically goes hand in hand with the overall image of downtown Jacksonville to the outside world.  A revamped Landing is something that would make projects like the Laura Trio more feasible, increasing their chances of success in the process.

I agree, but at the same time, if something doesn't happen THIS time with the Trio, I think one or more of the buildings could be lost to the elements.  Plus, it would make it that much more difficult to EVER do anything with the Trio later.

I hope it doesn't come down to an either or situation between the Trio and the Landing.

Well, it should never be an either or.  Only in Jax, does it seem like we immediately put projects against each other. We need them all.  Not just these two, but also the Ambassador, Exchange building, Haydon Burns Library, Bostwick, etc.

There's a several ways to finance changes to projects, so every project in DT should not be relying on the $4.1 million left of the money Council took. Many cities plug financing gaps through tax abatements/breaks, etc. as opposed to handing out cash on the spot.  A project like the Trio should also be able to apply for historic credits. While the Landing will not, you have the opportunity to play with deals with the land underneath it or the parking obligation situation to help numbers work.

Nevertheless, when compared head-to-head in terms of stimulating activity/image change in DT, nine times out of ten, one will immediately put more feet on downtown streets and is clearly more symbolic.  I'm actually surprised it's taken so long for someone viewed as a local leader to state this about the Landing.  It's been mentioned on the forums and on the street quite a bit over the years.

[thelakelander]

The list of other similar centers did give me an interesting idea to activate The Landing. Riverwalk in New Orleans is being repurposed into an Outlet Center and is claiming to be the first downtown outlet center. I know outlet centers have a stigma, but there are actually quite a few good stores at the St. Augustine Outlets like J Crew, Banana Republic, Brooks Brothers, Nike, Adidas, Coach..and then more high end stuff on the other side. Outlet stores could be a brilliant way to activate the dying indoor festival marketplace. You want to get people off 95 to visit downtown? Or have people stop in Jax for a night on their way down? Give them some shopping to go along with the food, culture, and entertainment.

Now I don't know if outlet stores like being so close to each other, but its an idea that is at least worth exploring.

Intriguing but I don't think it would work.  I have a hard time imagining that a Landing outlet (even with the bars and food and entertainment) could compete with St. Augustine's monster outlet center.

Just as festival markets have faded from their 80s heyday, so have outlet malls.  In the last couple of decades the small outlet center in Brunswick died, and there's virtually nothing left of the big one in Darien that was introduced with great fanfare in the mid-90s.  Several other 80s/90s outlet malls along I-95 in Virginia and the Carolinas have died or are a shell of themselves (Santee, Fredericksburg, Lumberton).  Seems that the ones that thrive are supermalls and/or near cities that are already big for tourism.

Richmond had a downtown outlet mall in the 80s, in the old Main Street train station, and it flopped quickly and utterly - the building is now back to serving as an Amtrak station.

Before Philips Mall on Emerson finally failed, an outlet/off-price retail strategy was implemented there as well.

[jcjohnpaint]

I think it politicians put projects against each other because that is who they are answering to at the end of the day.  I think directly about Sleiman and his ties to Hogan during the last campaign.  If we looked a little deeper into Clark, who knows how deep (dealings) would go.  I am sure this is what his whole crush the mobility fee is about at the end of the day.  All Sleiman mentioned was paint and lights.  I think if we give him (Sleiman) his dedicated parking as promised- you would see much happen to the Landing.  If not than I don't know.  I think the Trio only has a limited amount of life left.  When it is gone, it is gone.  I would say I feel the Trio would do more than the landing due to the positive energy it would create.  Anyways, if Sleiman was going to do something with the landing, why has he waited 10 years?  Does he know something we don't know? 

and..
Thanks Cat!

[thelakelander]

I don't know what Sleiman has planned or if it will even need city money.  I was just stating in general the impact of the Landing on the prospects of bringing downtown back to life.  I also believe the Laura Trio is important as well.  Especially when it comes to the preservation of these structures and a critical slice of our local history.  However, I'd be lying if I said, it's restoration will be a game changer for the area in the same manner that a 100% occupied and well integrated Landing would be.  Nevertheless, they should never be pitted against each other.  Let's get them both done.  Sometimes, it's okay to have a couple of pieces of cake.

Just look at Charlotte.  Their first LRT line went operational five years ago.  They aren't sitting around waiting for the Jax and the rest of the South to get their act together before asking for more federal money for more fixed transit.  While we debate the possibility of getting more than one project done, they've lobbied for money to get a modern streetcar and an additional LRT line under construction.

[peestandingup]

Not to mention the poster only suggested it for weekends only.

^This. And only at night. Not sure how people mistook it as "close down the whole shebang permanently". The examples I listed does just that (weekends only).

Maybe I should have been clearer.

Everyday or just some days, I still disagree. The Landing already has plenty of underutilized pedestrian space. I don't see how adding more will help, it will reduce access to the buildings along the street, and it will force traffic further outside this core area of downtown. Plus, people on this board complain when they have to park more than a couple blocks to a destination (and these are the urban advocates of the city), so imagine how eliminating parking on Laura and in front of the Landing would go over.

And what exactly are people supposed to do at the Landing currently using all of this space, other than eat or walk along/stare out at the water? And we all know how Jax treats "underutilized" spaces (it forgets about them). Closing the street on weekends nights would be easy to do, wouldnt impact much of anything (weekends are mostly dead anyway, this isn't exactly a bustling downtown) & offer ready-made connectivity/infrastructure already in place. No need to "wait" for the city to use some underutilized space that'll never happen. Its there now. Food trucks would help this too.

To be honest, the only time downtown Jax acts/looks like a real alive city is when this happens at certain times of the year when special events are going on (like Jazz Fest). So why not do mini versions of that every weekend like so many other towns successfully do? Is there something to lose if it doesnt work? I don't believe so.

Not that I think any of this would happen (including opening up the internal part of the Landing). They'll likely put some more lipstick on a pig, announce a new chain restaurant & call it a day. Then wonder why no one is shopping in the failed-long-ago mini mall part of the complex, or eating at the awful food court upstairs.

[tufsu1]

Rumor has it the Laura Trio developer will seek $20 million in incentives....imagine what $20 million could do at The Landing

[Ocklawaha]

At least the elevators and restrooms won't smell like pee... MAYBE! How much of an investment will they need for some Pine-Sol?

[urbanlibertarian]

It's good to see COJ thinking about selling off (or trading) some of it's real estate.  The land under the Landing should be added to the list.

[CityLife]

Good news

Landing owner Toney Sleiman has been pitching redesign plans of the Downtown dining and entertainment hub that would open the building to the St. Johns River, specifically through Laura Street, adding residential, parking and cutting some retail space.

His audience in recent weeks has been members of City Council, the Downtown Investment Authority and the city Office of Economic Development.

Sleiman said Wednesday that despite moving parts, the constant of a redesign is opening the venue to the river and Laura Street.

"Everybody has told me it's old, it's tired, it needs to be redone," he said. "I agree."

Sleiman said other aspects keep changing, such as the possibility for residential.

He said he ordered a residential study Tuesday that could be completed in 60 days. That will tell him what kind and how many residential units could be accommodated with a redesign.

Sleiman has long criticized a lack of dedicated parking. On Monday, he said he has ordered a parking study and said results should be available this month.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540675

[Cheshire Cat]

This is the new plan under discussion for the Landing. Nice article from The Daily Record

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540675

ff Writer
The Landing retail marketplace could soon have a new — and much different — look.

Landing owner Toney Sleiman has been pitching redesign plans of the Downtown dining and entertainment hub that would open the building to the St. Johns River, specifically through Laura Street, adding residential, parking and cutting some retail space.

His audience in recent weeks has been members of City Council, the Downtown Investment Authority and the city Office of Economic Development.

Sleiman said Wednesday that despite moving parts, the constant of a redesign is opening the venue to the river and Laura Street.

"Everybody has told me it's old, it's tired, it needs to be redone," he said. "I agree."

Sleiman said other aspects keep changing, such as the possibility for residential.

He said he ordered a residential study Tuesday that could be completed in 60 days. That will tell him what kind and how many residential units could be accommodated with a redesign.

Sleiman has long criticized a lack of dedicated parking. On Monday, he said he has ordered a parking study and said results should be available this month.

Sleiman said costs have not yet been determined, but said he will eventually ask the city for incentives.

In a 2009 Daily Record interview, he said his first actions, if given a blank check to redesign the Landing, would be to "cut through the middle of the building" and add parking that proposed tenants have told him they need.

He said Wednesday that Downtown has 47,000 workers and any restaurant or venue "would love to have that captive audience."

Council member Bill Bishop said this week, "I have seen the plan and, conceptually, I like it."

Bishop said the idea is to "pretty much knock down the horseshoe, reconstruct it with a hole and opening in the middle" for a river view from Laura Street and to add parking next to the building.

Bishop, an architect by trade, said he thinks the idea is better than the existing design.

"The design is not very inviting," he said. "Once you get there, the space inside the courtyard is great ... but you have this big wall in front of the river."

Council member Jim Love said Sleiman showed him basic plans to make the structure a little smaller with more parking and the river-view opening through Laura Street.

He said he would like to see several architects review the plans before he made a judgment, but did say the Downtown venue needed a change.

"The Landing needs to be refreshed," he said. "No doubt about it."

Council President Bill Gulliford said the idea Sleiman is proposing "has some merit" but that the process should "absolutely" start with the DIA. "To not include them would be shortsighted," he said.

DIA board Chair Oliver Barakat said Sleiman has briefed him on the concept and that he believes the idea to better connect the building to the river and Laura Street corridor "is the right thing to do."

Authority board member Mike Saylor said that during a recent conversation with Sleiman, the Landing owner said he wanted to bring it before the board in October. There is no agenda yet for the Oct. 16 meeting, but Barakat said if Sleiman has a specific request, he would be placed on the list.

Sleiman said Wednesday he wanted to meet with the board this month, but given the recent changes he might hold off.

He also kept the city apprised of his ideas.

"A new master plan or renovation can only help bring more opportunities this great downtown gateway," said Ted Carter, city Office of Economic Development executive director, in a statement.

Carter said the OED has been briefed on Sleiman's plans and would work with the DIA, Sleiman and others toward Downtown revitalization

[Cheshire Cat]

Here is another article discussing Sleiman's ideas for the Landing which include some residential.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/10/02/sleiman-mulling-residential-addition.html  (click link for full story)

Ashley Gurbal Kritzer
    Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal
   
Residential units could be added to the Jacksonville Landing as its ownership considers a renovation.

Toney Sleiman, president and CEO of Sleiman Enterprises, which owns the Landing, said Wednesday that is he in the process of hiring a consultant to study his property and determine a viable number of units and unit size.

Sleiman in late September told the Business Journal he was working on a renovation of the Landing but wasn't yet ready to reveal many details, other than to say the work would include repainting and new lighting.

Sleiman said he wants to consult with developers Alex Coley, principal of Hallmark Partners Inc., developer 220 Riverside, and Mike Balanky, president of Chase Properties Inc., which developed the San Marco Place condominium tower.

Coley has said that adding residential to the Landing would be successful.

"With meaningful retail and residential, I think that they have the best shot of anyone I can think of executing residential in that epicenter location," he told the Business Journal in September.