Nathan Beford Forrest High: Time For a Name Change

[jaxlore]

The cost aspect is garbage. Change the name and phase things in. Use up the letterhead. Put up temporary signs. Get some local businesses to help sponser new signs uniforms whatever, just dont keep sweeping this under the rug.

[Doctor_K]

and if they're going to use the "southern pride" argument (unsure why, but that's entirely another topic of conversation) for someone in which to keep the school named after, then use some OTHER Confederate commander.  One with ostensibly fewer controversial associations.

I don't know, John Bell Hood, Braxton Bragg, Albert Sidney Johnston, James Longstreet come to mind.

(Hey - where else am I going to use my otherwise-worthless History Degree?)

I'm sure Ock can give us like, thirty off the top of his head since he's so well versed in Southron history. 

C'mon already.

[cline]

Is there currently a Heinrich Himmler High in Germany?  Probably not, since even though he played a part in contemporary history, the guy was a freaking Nazi.
So why is it ok to have a school in Duval named after the founder of a terrorist organization like the Ku Klux Klan?

My .02 is: you get what you pay for (or don't pay for).
It may not be an earth shattering step forward in the grand history of human progress, but I really think the city should step up, spend the money and change the name to something a bit less controversial for a high school than the founder of the KKK, history be damned.

Unless we're all just actually ok with the KKK now?!

Or rename it Idi Amin High School?  Or perhaps Charles Manson Middle School?  I mean since we are choosing intentionally insulting names that have nothing to do with our own history, why not?  The type of mentality that led the school boards to open all white schools to defy Brown vs. Board of Education and name them after Klan Founders only led to the complete disaccreditation of our school system after all.

Or maybe Ted Bundy High School.  He did spend a brief time in Jacksonville so there is a vague connection.

[Bativac]

I bet you could round up private sponsors to help cover the costs of the name change, if such a thing were to be seriously considered. Couldn't they change it to a Jacksonville historical figure, or name it after the area or something?

It isn't a huge deal, but surely changing the name of the school from the founder of the KKK to Hans Tanzler High (or something) could only help improve Jacksonville's image. Changing it from one historical figure to another can't possibly elicit strong reactions from fans of history, especially since now local history would be represented. (And, you know. People from out of town wouldn't ask, incredulous, about the high school named after the Klan founder.)

[cline]

I bet you could round up private sponsors to help cover the costs of the name change, if such a thing were to be seriously considered. Couldn't they change it to a Jacksonville historical figure, or name it after the area or something?

It isn't a huge deal, but surely changing the name of the school from the founder of the KKK to Hans Tanzler High (or something) could only help improve Jacksonville's image. Changing it from one historical figure to another can't possibly elicit strong reactions from fans of history, especially since now local history would be represented. (And, you know. People from out of town wouldn't ask, incredulous, about the high school named after the Klan founder.)

Agreed.  I think naming High Schools after people that have had a positive impact on Jacksonville is a good idea.  Tillie Fowler and Dorcas Drake come to mind as candidates.  We should have done that with the new high school that was just built- Atlantic Coast High or whatever it is called.

[Tacachale]

The leading candidate for the name change has been Scott Speicher, the fighter pilot and first American casualty of the Gulf War. Not only was he a positive influence who was actually from Jacksonville and was stationed here, he actually went to this high school. If/when they rename it it should be after a local figure.

[MEGATRON]

They should rename it Megatron High School and the mascot could be a kickass robot that transforms into a gun.

[cline]

They should rename it Megatron High School and the mascot could be a kickass robot that transforms into a gun.

I prefer Cline High School.

Born in Jax? check.  Lives in Jax? check.  Is universally regarded as awesome? double check.

[Doctor_K]

They should rename it Megatron High School and the mascot could be a kickass robot that transforms into a gun.

Rodimus Prime > Megatron

My avatar wins.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

Is there currently a Heinrich Himmler High in Germany?  Probably not, since even though he played a part in contemporary history, the guy was a freaking Nazi.
So why is it ok to have a school in Duval named after the founder of a terrorist organization like the Ku Klux Klan?

My .02 is: you get what you pay for (or don't pay for).
It may not be an earth shattering step forward in the grand history of human progress, but I really think the city should step up, spend the money and change the name to something a bit less controversial for a high school than the founder of the KKK, history be damned.

Unless we're all just actually ok with the KKK now?!

Or rename it Idi Amin High School?  Or perhaps Charles Manson Middle School?  I mean since we are choosing intentionally insulting names that have nothing to do with our own history, why not?  The type of mentality that led the school boards to open all white schools to defy Brown vs. Board of Education and name them after Klan Founders only led to the complete disaccreditation of our school system after all.

Or maybe Ted Bundy High School.  He did spend a brief time in Jacksonville so there is a vague connection.

Ouch--or there's always Ottis Toole Tech if we want to stay local/loco. 
Born and raised in Jacksonville, he's the prime suspect for the murder of Adam Walsh in 1981.  Has as much relevance to a quality education as Nathan Bedford Forrest does.

[JayBird]

Cost isn't considerable at all. If the school system is still spending a dime on letterhead or business cards whoever makes those suggestions should be kindly escorted from the building and given a gold watch and the canned "thanks for your service" speech. Most schools have a painted sign in their gym, a sign at the road, one on the building and one on the athletic field. That plus changing athletic/band/cheerleading (not intentionally separating cheer and athletics) would all be no more than $10,000 by rough estimate and a few quick web site checks. But lets say it was $25,000 .... I am sure that the school board could receive that much in community donations to change the name to Scott Speicher High School. 

Of course I'm not gonna lie, Megatron High sounds kick @ss awesome :-)

[Tacachale]

^The marching band uniforms alone would probably cost that much. But yes, you have a point, the cost by itself shouldn't be the determining factor, as new stuff is going to have to be bought over time anyway.

[sheclown]

Is there currently a Heinrich Himmler High in Germany?  Probably not, since even though he played a part in contemporary German history, the guy was a freaking Nazi.
So why is it ok to have a school in Duval named after the founder of a terrorist organization like the Ku Klux Klan?

My .02 is: you get what you pay for (or don't pay for).
It may not be an earth shattering step forward in the grand history of human progress, but I really think the city should step up, spend the money and change the name to something a bit less controversial for a high school than the founder of the KKK, history be damned.

Unless we're all just actually ok with the KKK now?!

my thoughts exactly. 

[Ajax]

I actually attended Forrest High School.  While I was there, I never thought much about the name.  In fact, I don't remember anyone really talking about it.  (Full disclosure: nobody would have ever mistaken me for an intellectual back then).   

I think we (me and my friends, anyway) were more embarrassed to be called the "Rebels".  It had sort of a Dukes of Hazard redneck-y feel to it.  Not at all what we wanted to be though of in the mid to late 80s.  If you had changed the name to Robert Smith High and called our football team the Love Cats we would have felt a bit more school spirit.  I remember some of my black friends wearing jackets with a Confederate battle flag on the back, and irony wasn't really the "thing" at that time, so I'm pretty sure they weren't making a statement.  I guess we were all typical teenagers who mostly thought about girls/boys or sports or music.  I don't remember much discussion about the name in history classes, but again, I wasn't exactly the most diligent student. 

As I got older, when I met people who were also Jacksonville natives, one of the first questions was always "where did you go to high school?"  I think that's when it started hitting me.  I still didn't have strong feelings about it, but I found myself almost apologizing for the name.  In fact, just this past week someone who moved here right after high school and is familiar with the local schools even though she didn't go to school here asked me where I went.  I instinctively cringed when I told her. 

I don't know as much about Forrest as I probably should.  I've heard that he was the founder of the KKK and an evil guy, and I've heard about his atrocities on the battlefield, but I also know that war is hell and all that, and the atrocities of the Union heroes are probably underreported since they (or should I say we?) won.  I've also heard Forrest's defenders say that at that time the KKK was more like a fraternity and that they went out and helped war widows and I can't remember what else now.  I remember reading that the historian Shelby Foote considered Lincoln and Forrest to be the two great geniuses that came out of the Civil War.  Maybe I should stop being lazy and do my own research.  I'm starting to think that the old saying about statistics could also apply to history ("there are lies, damn lies, and history"). 

I remember a couple of movements to change the name and the people who wanted to name the school after Speicher.  There have been some other good suggestions in this thread like Tanzler and Drake and Fowler.  Each worthy of being honored.   

I know that it's not appropriate to have a school named after Forrest.  But it smacks of political correctness to take his name off.  Maybe something nondescript like P.S. 248 would have been a better choice.  I think this is why they named the new high school Atlantic Coast or whatever instead of naming it after a person.  If I remember correctly, back in the 50s the other name they considered for the school was Valhalla.  That would have been pretty cool.  Talk about a missed opportunity. 

One question I have is this: if we change the name of Forrest High School, what else are we going to change?  I guess we've got to get rid of J.E.B. Stuart and Stonewall Jackson.  Jeff Davis.  Can we keep Robert E. Lee?  Maybe for a while, but eventually he'll have to go too.  George Washington owned slaves.  I'm not trying to be ridiculous but where do we draw the line? 

[sheclown]

I think the connection to the KKK is the issue.

(Even if that was the nice KKK -- really?)

It isn't the fact that it is politically incorrect.  It is the fact that it is horribly offensive.